1
00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:21,840
[Music]

2
00:00:44,330 --> 00:00:41,670
explode the bazaars are your e-ticket

3
00:00:47,610 --> 00:00:44,340
ride into the world of the paranoid

4
00:00:50,660 --> 00:00:47,620
strap yourself in as we traverse the

5
00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:50,670
universe exploring the unexplained UFO

6
00:00:57,420 --> 00:00:55,050
of ghosts Lost Worlds

7
00:01:01,260 --> 00:00:57,430
cryptozoology waters as well as other

8
00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:01,270
dimensions it's time to take back the

9
00:01:09,330 --> 00:01:06,430
night now your electrifying hosts of

10
00:01:16,740 --> 00:01:09,340
exploring the bizarre Timothy Beckley

11
00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:16,750
and Tim Schwartz voice-off dark out here

12
00:01:21,290 --> 00:01:20,110
who in their right mind goes fishing so

13
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:21,300
late at night

14
00:01:26,790 --> 00:01:24,250
Shh keep your voice down you'll scare

15
00:01:28,230 --> 00:01:26,800
the fish away this is the best time you

16
00:01:31,620 --> 00:01:28,240
know the fish are really jumping tonight

17
00:01:33,570 --> 00:01:31,630
well I'm getting pretty jumpy myself for

18
00:01:36,210 --> 00:01:33,580
sure see that white off in the distance

19
00:01:39,780 --> 00:01:36,220
it seems to be coming closer and closer

20
00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:39,790
you think it's an airplane mm-hmm nope

21
00:01:45,330 --> 00:01:43,510
looks like a spaceship to me huh

22
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:45,340
I hope they heard in the mood to fish

23
00:01:55,350 --> 00:01:48,130
for humans well we'll have to be careful

24
00:01:57,300 --> 00:01:55,360
about there we go all right Tim how ya

25
00:02:00,690 --> 00:01:57,310
out there in Jasper Indiana

26
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:00,700
we got a historic program tonight yes

27
00:02:07,109 --> 00:02:04,690
I'm looking forward to talking with with

28
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:07,119
Calvin tonight you know I I remember

29
00:02:16,650 --> 00:02:13,090
when very clearly in 1973 when you know

30
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:16,660
the media just jumped all over their

31
00:02:22,020 --> 00:02:19,810
their encounter you know in 1973 was a

32
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:22,030
was a pretty interesting year when it

33
00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:25,690
came to UFO sightings and so I mean and

34
00:02:31,410 --> 00:02:28,720
they're they're incident really stands

35
00:02:34,530 --> 00:02:31,420
out in my memory well I think even

36
00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:34,540
Rolling Stone magazine who very seldom

37
00:02:41,759 --> 00:02:38,650
ever if ever does a article or news

38
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:41,769
piece on on UFOs did a did a piece on

39
00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:44,530
this particular case but why don't you

40
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:46,510
come a little closer to the mic there

41
00:02:50,730 --> 00:02:50,050
Tim and introduce our award-winning

42
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:50,740
guests with

43
00:02:56,130 --> 00:02:52,810
evening Oh it'd be my pleasure well

44
00:03:00,780 --> 00:02:56,140
tonight we have with us Calvin Parker

45
00:03:02,850 --> 00:03:00,790
now Calvin was born in 1954 in Seminole

46
00:03:04,890 --> 00:03:02,860
Texas and by the age of three his

47
00:03:07,470 --> 00:03:04,900
parents moved to the Laurel Mississippi

48
00:03:09,990 --> 00:03:07,480
region which is about 110 miles

49
00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:10,000
northwest of Pascagoula now Calvin's

50
00:03:13,350 --> 00:03:11,440
father I didn't know if you knew this

51
00:03:16,470 --> 00:03:13,360
Tim worked for the Atomic Energy

52
00:03:19,620 --> 00:03:16,480
Commission and his work was to drill

53
00:03:22,350 --> 00:03:19,630
test holes to detonate nuclear weapons

54
00:03:27,090 --> 00:03:22,360
deep underground some of which I guess

55
00:03:29,130 --> 00:03:27,100
they detonated therein in Mississippi so

56
00:03:30,420 --> 00:03:29,140
by the age of 18 Calvin dropped out of

57
00:03:34,170 --> 00:03:30,430
high school in Laurel and took a job

58
00:03:37,860 --> 00:03:34,180
building trip boats in Pascagoula at the

59
00:03:39,750 --> 00:03:37,870
F be Walker & söhne shipyard in 1973

60
00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:39,760
Parker had rented a room for one of his

61
00:03:48,180 --> 00:03:43,900
shipyard colleagues Charles Hickson so

62
00:03:50,130 --> 00:03:48,190
now on October 11th 1973 Calvin and

63
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:50,140
Charles set off to do some fishing at an

64
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:52,330
abandoned shipyard called Shaw Peters

65
00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:54,010
which was on the west bank of the

66
00:03:58,770 --> 00:03:56,710
Pascagoula Pascagoula River as a two men

67
00:04:00,750 --> 00:03:58,780
fished a football shaped UFO with

68
00:04:03,420 --> 00:04:00,760
blinding light swooped down out of the

69
00:04:04,140 --> 00:04:03,430
night sky and landed nearby what

70
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:04,150
happened next

71
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:06,730
turn the two men into media sensations

72
00:04:11,130 --> 00:04:08,890
and their case went on to become one of

73
00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:11,140
the most high-profile UFO stories in

74
00:04:15,870 --> 00:04:13,510
American history Parker says that he's

75
00:04:18,660 --> 00:04:15,880
still grappling with an encounter that

76
00:04:19,979 --> 00:04:18,670
turned his life upside down and we will

77
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:19,989
be talking to

78
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:24,490
Calvin tonight because he has just

79
00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:27,250
recently released a new book called

80
00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:30,760
Pascagoula the closest encounter now

81
00:04:35,340 --> 00:04:33,550
also with us tonight is Jerome Clark

82
00:04:39,710 --> 00:04:35,350
now Jerome's been interested in UFOs and

83
00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:39,720
anomalies since his antilope adolescence

84
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:41,650
Clark is the author of more than 20

85
00:04:46,370 --> 00:04:43,930
books on these subjects including the

86
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:46,380
prize-winning multi-volume UFO

87
00:04:52,260 --> 00:04:48,970
encyclopedia he's the former editor of

88
00:04:54,570 --> 00:04:52,270
fate as well as of international UFO

89
00:04:58,020 --> 00:04:54,580
reporter the magazine of the Center for

90
00:05:00,870 --> 00:04:58,030
UFO studies on whose board he served for

91
00:05:02,909 --> 00:05:00,880
years working with Jael and honey his

92
00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:02,919
feature articles and reviews are

93
00:05:06,810 --> 00:05:04,480
regularly published

94
00:05:09,570 --> 00:05:06,820
in the world's premier anomaly magazine

95
00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:09,580
14 times a keen student of folk and

96
00:05:15,090 --> 00:05:12,310
roots music his written songs recorded

97
00:05:18,710 --> 00:05:15,100
by among others Emmylou Harris Mary

98
00:05:22,290 --> 00:05:18,720
Chapin carpenter and his reviews of

99
00:05:25,770 --> 00:05:22,300
current CDs in these genres are posted

100
00:05:27,150 --> 00:05:25,780
weekly at rambles dotnet so Calvin

101
00:05:27,810 --> 00:05:27,160
Jerome thank you very much for being

102
00:05:31,350 --> 00:05:27,820
with us tonight

103
00:05:34,260 --> 00:05:31,360
on exploring the bizarre oh you mighty

104
00:05:37,830 --> 00:05:34,270
welcome it's good where does any day you

105
00:05:39,870 --> 00:05:37,840
wake up to good day yeah yeah you know

106
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:39,880
I've known Jerry we were both

107
00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:43,570
adolescents in fact I call instead of

108
00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:44,980
growing in Jerome I call him Jerry

109
00:05:50,570 --> 00:05:47,710
because we know known each other since

110
00:05:53,310 --> 00:05:50,580
we were both in he we were teen

111
00:05:57,150 --> 00:05:53,320
ufologists and of course we've grown up

112
00:05:58,740 --> 00:05:57,160
and we're in middle middle ufology now I

113
00:06:01,770 --> 00:05:58,750
believe Jerry wouldn't just say that

114
00:06:04,140 --> 00:06:01,780
middle you middle middle ufology and mmm

115
00:06:07,710 --> 00:06:04,150
it seems me that we got started this

116
00:06:10,890 --> 00:06:07,720
what was it three four years ago ah at

117
00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:10,900
least at least that's what I know that's

118
00:06:15,930 --> 00:06:12,400
where you know more about the subject

119
00:06:18,210 --> 00:06:15,940
then than most people and by the way

120
00:06:21,150 --> 00:06:18,220
your UFO encyclopedia it's a brand new

121
00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:21,160
edition isn't that correct yeah it'll be

122
00:06:27,990 --> 00:06:24,070
the third edition which is a two volumes

123
00:06:31,650 --> 00:06:28,000
1500 pages will be released a week from

124
00:06:33,450 --> 00:06:31,660
today wonderful wonderful wonderful and

125
00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:33,460
Calvin has got a great book out I know

126
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:36,310
I've been going through it for the last

127
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:38,770
several days and I want to start out

128
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:42,130
instead of my telling the story now I

129
00:06:47,310 --> 00:06:44,170
don't think that there's anybody in the

130
00:06:50,430 --> 00:06:47,320
United States who hasn't heard of this

131
00:06:53,630 --> 00:06:50,440
particular abduction experience it but

132
00:06:57,330 --> 00:06:53,640
let's hear it from from Calvin

133
00:07:00,240 --> 00:06:57,340
first-hand account set the stage you

134
00:07:01,830 --> 00:07:00,250
knew it at Charlie Higson you you had a

135
00:07:05,130 --> 00:07:01,840
lift with a live with him for a while he

136
00:07:08,550 --> 00:07:05,140
was a friend of the family I'd been

137
00:07:11,940 --> 00:07:08,560
knowing Charlie most all my childhood

138
00:07:14,460 --> 00:07:11,950
life you know I went to church with his

139
00:07:16,350 --> 00:07:14,470
children went to school with some of

140
00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:16,360
them and they lived close by there was

141
00:07:20,490 --> 00:07:17,980
neighbors so

142
00:07:22,770 --> 00:07:20,500
Charlie took a job on the coast and I

143
00:07:24,780 --> 00:07:22,780
was working in the old field now

144
00:07:27,420 --> 00:07:24,790
actually Charlie and my father was

145
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:27,430
really good friends he was a good deal

146
00:07:33,690 --> 00:07:30,250
older than what I was but uh when I

147
00:07:38,130 --> 00:07:33,700
ended up coming to the coast to work for

148
00:07:39,690 --> 00:07:38,140
him he had stable jobs down here and

149
00:07:42,900 --> 00:07:39,700
that's what I was hunting I was in the

150
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:42,910
old field working 16 hours a day seven

151
00:07:47,370 --> 00:07:45,370
days a week I'm fixing to get married so

152
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:47,380
I didn't want to hang around in senders

153
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:48,970
field Mississippi or Laurel Mississippi

154
00:07:56,190 --> 00:07:52,210
and work that many hours to make fixin

155
00:07:58,860 --> 00:07:56,200
to be married so well I called Charlie

156
00:08:01,290 --> 00:07:58,870
up and he told me well come on down I

157
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:01,300
have an opening in the shipyard so when

158
00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:03,970
came down Randy the room for Charlie a

159
00:08:09,290 --> 00:08:06,910
matter of fact the first day I was down

160
00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:09,300
I stayed one night over in his house

161
00:08:16,650 --> 00:08:13,150
then the next day was October 11th of 73

162
00:08:19,230 --> 00:08:16,660
we got up went to work so when we went

163
00:08:21,180 --> 00:08:19,240
to work we got our paperwork filled out

164
00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:21,190
and got brass tin and got straightened

165
00:08:26,490 --> 00:08:23,650
out and did it work till about five

166
00:08:28,710 --> 00:08:26,500
o'clock that day and we got off Charlie

167
00:08:31,530 --> 00:08:28,720
said you know instead of going home and

168
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:31,540
eating and cleaning up and being bored

169
00:08:34,610 --> 00:08:33,130
all this time let's go do a little

170
00:08:38,940 --> 00:08:34,620
fishing we hadn't done that in a while

171
00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:38,950
so we decided to go fishing we went to

172
00:08:44,060 --> 00:08:40,690
his house of course I didn't have my

173
00:08:46,770 --> 00:08:44,070
fishing equipment and I borrow you know

174
00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:46,780
normally people from the South don't use

175
00:08:51,030 --> 00:08:48,550
each other's fishing equipment that's

176
00:08:53,670 --> 00:08:51,040
just unheard of and don't happen but in

177
00:08:58,020 --> 00:08:53,680
this case I went ahead being I knew him

178
00:09:01,170 --> 00:08:58,030
and agreed more histo and we went to a

179
00:09:03,180 --> 00:09:01,180
place called do saltpeter shipyard which

180
00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:03,190
used to be an old grain elevator that

181
00:09:08,310 --> 00:09:05,560
where they unloaded the ships and the

182
00:09:09,780 --> 00:09:08,320
grain would fall off the shelves and the

183
00:09:12,780 --> 00:09:09,790
fish would come up meet the grain you

184
00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:12,790
can usually catch a lot of fish now this

185
00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:14,680
is my first time going but I'd heard

186
00:09:19,950 --> 00:09:16,870
Charlie talk about it a good deal I was

187
00:09:21,750 --> 00:09:19,960
kind of excited about getting there so

188
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:21,760
when we pulled up and I looked at the

189
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:24,250
location I thought back in my mind why

190
00:09:28,410 --> 00:09:26,770
in the world why would somebody want to

191
00:09:31,350 --> 00:09:28,420
walk through this mess because it was

192
00:09:34,139 --> 00:09:31,360
trash everywhere no refrigerators and

193
00:09:36,990 --> 00:09:34,149
a lot of oak debris sold out in this

194
00:09:39,660 --> 00:09:37,000
marsh grass and I said where this just

195
00:09:41,490 --> 00:09:39,670
comes with the territory so we got out

196
00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:41,500
of the car got our equipment if we walk

197
00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:44,260
down to the edge of the river it took it

198
00:09:52,050 --> 00:09:46,600
was about a foot but length of a

199
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:52,060
football field about 300 yards where we

200
00:09:58,350 --> 00:09:56,410
had to fish from the car and there was

201
00:10:00,509 --> 00:09:58,360
no way to drive down there because of

202
00:10:04,460 --> 00:10:00,519
all that so it took a little while to

203
00:10:09,389 --> 00:10:04,470
walk down because of the debris we owe

204
00:10:11,759 --> 00:10:09,399
got to the river and we made it up

205
00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:11,769
cashed it out pulled up an old log on a

206
00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:14,350
steel pier and I was looking across the

207
00:10:20,490 --> 00:10:17,680
river and I was looking at a Coast Guard

208
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:20,500
Cutter and I was thinking to myself how

209
00:10:26,430 --> 00:10:22,690
in the world does something made out of

210
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:26,440
steel float and that's what I was

211
00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:28,810
thinking woman the blue lights come

212
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:31,480
across from behind me across the top of

213
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:33,370
my head and reflected out across the

214
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:38,050
water I thought Lord the law was here to

215
00:10:42,990 --> 00:10:39,970
make us move because we got to be

216
00:10:44,819 --> 00:10:43,000
trespassing on his property but they

217
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:44,829
don't have to get down here so that's a

218
00:10:49,829 --> 00:10:47,170
big act but I was sitting there watching

219
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:49,839
them blue lights reflecting from behind

220
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:52,810
us across that water so we both stood up

221
00:10:56,579 --> 00:10:54,490
about the same time because that's how

222
00:10:59,699 --> 00:10:56,589
bright the lights were looked around and

223
00:11:03,660 --> 00:10:59,709
then when we did that the lights got so

224
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:03,670
bright it was blinding and I knew right

225
00:11:07,889 --> 00:11:06,160
then it couldn't be the law because back

226
00:11:13,230 --> 00:11:07,899
in the seventies there wasn't any lights

227
00:11:15,689 --> 00:11:13,240
how bright then that I knew of so but

228
00:11:19,019 --> 00:11:15,699
what had happened or what I figure had

229
00:11:21,329 --> 00:11:19,029
happened the door must have opened up on

230
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:21,339
this craft and we still didn't know what

231
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:23,290
it was because it was blinded it was

232
00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:25,810
just like throwing lots in your eyes and

233
00:11:29,780 --> 00:11:28,420
that dark and just kind of blocks your

234
00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:29,790
vision there for a minute

235
00:11:39,730 --> 00:11:35,350
so in just a few seconds and it didn't

236
00:11:41,830 --> 00:11:39,740
take long we noticed three three

237
00:11:44,290 --> 00:11:41,840
figures approaching us we still could

238
00:11:47,770 --> 00:11:44,300
make out what it was until they got a

239
00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:47,780
little closer but I in my mind I was

240
00:11:52,690 --> 00:11:49,900
sitting here thinking I how did they get

241
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:52,700
illness that quick you know it took us a

242
00:11:57,220 --> 00:11:54,880
long time to walk through all this mess

243
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:57,230
but what they were doing that was

244
00:12:03,700 --> 00:12:00,880
floating about two foot off the ground

245
00:12:04,420 --> 00:12:03,710
across the top of that marsh grass and

246
00:12:07,060 --> 00:12:04,430
the debris

247
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,070
well they floated right up and we see

248
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:09,440
there was a mistake right then we should

249
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:12,320
have run or tried to run but it was

250
00:12:16,180 --> 00:12:14,240
nowhere to run there was water on the

251
00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:16,190
Left watering the right and water dead

252
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:18,380
in front of us and it had all trash and

253
00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:20,330
debris and the water old steel pilings

254
00:12:25,510 --> 00:12:24,110
and stuff so two of them got ahold of

255
00:12:28,060 --> 00:12:25,520
Charlie and one of them got ahold of

256
00:12:32,070 --> 00:12:28,070
myself well this is the last time I st.

257
00:12:37,630 --> 00:12:35,110
immediately when they got ahold of it

258
00:12:39,850 --> 00:12:37,640
felt like a little puncher in my arm and

259
00:12:43,330 --> 00:12:39,860
that's when they must have be ejected

260
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:43,340
something or if they're like you might

261
00:12:48,250 --> 00:12:45,170
inject you something because I got real

262
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:48,260
relaxed no the fear just kinda left

263
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:50,480
right there because up until that minute

264
00:12:58,990 --> 00:12:55,130
I was kind of afraid but uh when I felt

265
00:13:02,230 --> 00:12:59,000
that plunger then we automatically just

266
00:13:04,810 --> 00:13:02,240
automatically lifted us up and I was

267
00:13:08,110 --> 00:13:04,820
thinking to myself Nike think clean and

268
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:08,120
I can see but I couldn't turn my head no

269
00:13:13,420 --> 00:13:10,370
way or I could couldn't move anything on

270
00:13:15,550 --> 00:13:13,430
my body so this thing were we

271
00:13:16,990 --> 00:13:15,560
automatically came up a couple of foot

272
00:13:19,510 --> 00:13:17,000
off the ground was gliding through the

273
00:13:21,340 --> 00:13:19,520
crowd and I was thinking to myself how

274
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:21,350
come it's didn't break my arm if he

275
00:13:26,650 --> 00:13:24,650
cooked me up but it didn't take but a

276
00:13:30,010 --> 00:13:26,660
second for us to get to the craft and

277
00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:30,020
we'll went in he took a left turn with

278
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:30,740
me now

279
00:13:35,170 --> 00:13:33,290
keep in mind I still couldn't turn my

280
00:13:37,870 --> 00:13:35,180
head to look because I wanted to see if

281
00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:37,880
Charlie was around say what was going on

282
00:13:42,610 --> 00:13:40,430
with him and then he took another little

283
00:13:47,230 --> 00:13:42,620
right and put me in a room and in here

284
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:47,240
on a table so now I say he put me on the

285
00:13:52,809 --> 00:13:49,760
table I've never seen the table but I

286
00:13:55,710 --> 00:13:52,819
could tell well actually

287
00:13:58,329 --> 00:13:55,720
I couldn't feel the table I was living

288
00:14:02,439 --> 00:13:58,339
levitating there and I figured I was on

289
00:14:05,259 --> 00:14:02,449
the table about a 45 degree angles and

290
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,269
then there's something look like a deck

291
00:14:09,789 --> 00:14:07,279
of cards about the size of a deck of

292
00:14:12,189 --> 00:14:09,799
cards came out of the wall I have a

293
00:14:14,529 --> 00:14:12,199
seedling and then went down and stopped

294
00:14:17,499 --> 00:14:14,539
right between my eyes about a foot

295
00:14:21,129 --> 00:14:17,509
between miles and it rotated around my

296
00:14:23,710 --> 00:14:21,139
head it went around one full term but it

297
00:14:26,739 --> 00:14:23,720
clicked on each side of my head and in

298
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:26,749
front in the back about four times and

299
00:14:32,499 --> 00:14:28,639
then it went right back up in the

300
00:14:35,979 --> 00:14:32,509
ceiling and that's when though I noticed

301
00:14:38,489 --> 00:14:35,989
there was a different Hall being other

302
00:14:41,769 --> 00:14:38,499
than what I call the big ugly creature

303
00:14:45,219 --> 00:14:41,779
it was a different one came out and I

304
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:45,229
don't know but as male or female it was

305
00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:48,079
more of a and what this frightening is

306
00:14:53,489 --> 00:14:51,289
what had come in and I would call it a

307
00:14:56,769 --> 00:14:53,499
female because it was feminine looking

308
00:15:00,460 --> 00:14:56,779
but came out and took her hands or its

309
00:15:01,299 --> 00:15:00,470
hands and pulled on my cheeks look down

310
00:15:03,789 --> 00:15:01,309
my throat

311
00:15:07,239 --> 00:15:03,799
and run her finger down in the back of

312
00:15:09,219 --> 00:15:07,249
my throat and took it out and I didn't

313
00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:09,229
feel no feelings on the fingers I don't

314
00:15:13,869 --> 00:15:11,929
know they was warm or cold but I

315
00:15:16,299 --> 00:15:13,879
couldn't feel nothing and then the fear

316
00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:16,309
started coming back to me and I was

317
00:15:21,099 --> 00:15:18,289
laying there you know I was starting to

318
00:15:25,599 --> 00:15:21,109
come out of the little bit of trance I

319
00:15:29,049 --> 00:15:25,609
was in and I distinctly remember it was

320
00:15:32,469 --> 00:15:29,059
just like she had talked or said

321
00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:32,479
something don't be afraid and but her

322
00:15:37,359 --> 00:15:35,809
lips never moved and it kind of calmed

323
00:15:40,419 --> 00:15:37,369
me down for a minute we're not gonna

324
00:15:43,359 --> 00:15:40,429
hurt you don't be afraid and then she

325
00:15:45,939 --> 00:15:43,369
turned around and went back up to the

326
00:15:48,309 --> 00:15:45,949
another room or somewhere cuz I didn't

327
00:15:50,259 --> 00:15:48,319
see her no more and the old big ugly

328
00:15:52,569 --> 00:15:50,269
wouldn't come back in there carried us

329
00:15:55,449 --> 00:15:52,579
back out to the river or carried me back

330
00:15:57,909 --> 00:15:55,459
out set me down in front of the river my

331
00:16:00,039 --> 00:15:57,919
orange was stretched out of pacing the

332
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,049
river and that's when I heard Charlie's

333
00:16:06,009 --> 00:16:02,480
again Charlie said kalvin kalvin you

334
00:16:06,460 --> 00:16:06,019
okay son you okay and that kind of

335
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:06,470
brought me

336
00:16:11,140 --> 00:16:08,450
and I turn around and watched and I

337
00:16:13,630 --> 00:16:11,150
heard the craft just kind of pick up and

338
00:16:16,180 --> 00:16:13,640
leave then it made of zipping noise and

339
00:16:17,830 --> 00:16:16,190
when it come up off the ground it was

340
00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:17,840
gone I mean you couldn't see it no more

341
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:20,080
just disappeared

342
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:23,920
well now Calvin when they picked you up

343
00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:30,560
you know bodily what did their flesh

344
00:16:35,460 --> 00:16:33,230
feel like could you tell I've been

345
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:35,470
getting a feeling as to what they were

346
00:16:40,060 --> 00:16:38,210
composition might have been I couldn't

347
00:16:43,090 --> 00:16:40,070
feel nothing I

348
00:16:43,780 --> 00:16:43,100
as far as failing their flesh either one

349
00:16:46,780 --> 00:16:43,790
of them you know

350
00:16:49,510 --> 00:16:46,790
Avery the big the big when they come out

351
00:16:52,330 --> 00:16:49,520
and got me I think it was all more

352
00:16:56,110 --> 00:16:52,340
robotic robot anything anything because

353
00:16:58,660 --> 00:16:56,120
he just moved a lot mechanical wise no

354
00:17:02,260 --> 00:16:58,670
no is this the what is this the one that

355
00:17:04,510 --> 00:17:02,270
I referred to is the mummy yeah kinda

356
00:17:10,270 --> 00:17:04,520
look kind of looks like a mummy right it

357
00:17:12,250 --> 00:17:10,280
may at ha hey I had a painting I might

358
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:12,260
still have it in the the closet here

359
00:17:16,930 --> 00:17:14,930
somewhere and if I ever find it out said

360
00:17:19,690 --> 00:17:16,940
that to its rightful owner which is

361
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:19,700
probably you that was done while you

362
00:17:28,270 --> 00:17:24,160
were under hypnosis by Curtis Watkins

363
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:28,280
rod yeah okay anyway sure you know we

364
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:31,850
yet to me it always looked like I always

365
00:17:36,670 --> 00:17:33,530
say the mummies were Avenger or

366
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:36,680
something like that you know could you

367
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:40,370
tell how did it have substance though I

368
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:42,890
mean did it feel you say it felt more

369
00:17:47,740 --> 00:17:44,960
like it was real better robotic than it

370
00:17:50,650 --> 00:17:47,750
was flesh and blood yeah the movement

371
00:17:53,650 --> 00:17:50,660
was now I could see it but I couldn't

372
00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:53,660
feel nothing you know you'd figure you'd

373
00:17:58,540 --> 00:17:56,030
feel maybe the heat off their body or

374
00:18:00,370 --> 00:17:58,550
their skin when it raked on you you know

375
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:00,380
I was thinking it probably felt like a

376
00:18:04,180 --> 00:18:02,570
pair of gloves but I don't know yeah I

377
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:04,190
didn't feel nothing except for that

378
00:18:10,210 --> 00:18:07,610
puncher in my arm at the time and later

379
00:18:12,790 --> 00:18:10,220
on they confirmed that it was probably a

380
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,800
shot that they gave you some kind or an

381
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:14,960
injection they

382
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:18,610
it's a shock but some kind of injection

383
00:18:24,610 --> 00:18:23,210
now okay what once the episode was was

384
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:24,620
finished and done with and I know you

385
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:26,809
spent the night and in the cell with the

386
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:29,330
Charlie and we'll get to that but did

387
00:18:34,299 --> 00:18:31,970
you feel that this the shot that they

388
00:18:37,769 --> 00:18:34,309
give you gave you did it have any effect

389
00:18:41,529 --> 00:18:37,779
at all on your body that you know it

390
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:41,539
calmed me down I it must have been kind

391
00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:44,210
of like a tranquilizer or something and

392
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:46,190
I'm just guessing at this I don't know

393
00:18:52,419 --> 00:18:49,490
for sure but uh you know I was scared

394
00:18:54,940 --> 00:18:52,429
anybody would be secured right then but

395
00:18:57,310 --> 00:18:54,950
then when they grabbed me enough and

396
00:19:01,090 --> 00:18:57,320
actually I heard something like a shot

397
00:19:03,460 --> 00:19:01,100
of air going to my arm and it was real

398
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:03,470
sore for day or two after day but it

399
00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:05,450
just kind of really calmed me down but

400
00:19:10,419 --> 00:19:06,830
it was something that didn't last

401
00:19:12,340 --> 00:19:10,429
because from the time we went inside the

402
00:19:14,669 --> 00:19:12,350
craft you know it was starting to wear

403
00:19:19,799 --> 00:19:14,679
off when this other creature was all

404
00:19:23,470 --> 00:19:19,809
examining me now do you think okay how

405
00:19:25,389 --> 00:19:23,480
from outside how large was the craft

406
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:25,399
would you say Alan let's say compared to

407
00:19:35,019 --> 00:19:30,559
an automobile or was it a 747 no it

408
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:35,029
wasn't the size of a 747 it was old it's

409
00:19:40,090 --> 00:19:37,250
really just hard to tell because life

410
00:19:44,529 --> 00:19:40,100
was so bright coming off but it was all

411
00:19:47,380 --> 00:19:44,539
I don't know probably I'm gonna say a

412
00:19:50,350 --> 00:19:47,390
hundred fifty foot long

413
00:19:52,510 --> 00:19:50,360
I don't know how wide it was but it was

414
00:19:55,810 --> 00:19:52,520
somewhere in that area you know I don't

415
00:19:57,519 --> 00:19:55,820
exactly know yeah well now it obviously

416
00:20:00,220 --> 00:19:57,529
was made up of various compartments

417
00:20:03,460 --> 00:20:00,230
inside would you say that the dimensions

418
00:20:04,990 --> 00:20:03,470
inside were different than you would

419
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:05,000
imagine it when compared to what you saw

420
00:20:10,180 --> 00:20:08,000
from the outside actually from what I

421
00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:10,190
seen inside you know they just took me

422
00:20:13,779 --> 00:20:12,049
in the hallway and then they made a

423
00:20:17,139 --> 00:20:13,789
little left and they went into a little

424
00:20:21,850 --> 00:20:17,149
small a smaller room and I'm gonna say

425
00:20:24,669 --> 00:20:21,860
the room was probably like a 12 by 12 or

426
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:24,679
10 but twelve or something like that but

427
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:26,960
I didn't see any doors or nothing

428
00:20:32,649 --> 00:20:28,970
room and I know she come out of them

429
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:32,659
come out of something but then again you

430
00:20:37,419 --> 00:20:34,370
know I couldn't turn my head and really

431
00:20:39,940 --> 00:20:37,429
get a good look all I know is I look for

432
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:39,950
some wall or some light fixtures when I

433
00:20:43,899 --> 00:20:41,450
went in because the lights were so

434
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:43,909
bright and I said well maybe you know

435
00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:46,159
I'll see some light fixtures in here can

436
00:20:50,529 --> 00:20:48,529
make something male but the lights was

437
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:50,539
coming out of the wall like a like it

438
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:52,159
was in the paint or something I'll only

439
00:20:59,440 --> 00:20:55,730
made now the walls and I've never dated

440
00:21:01,960 --> 00:20:59,450
that out what do you figure charlie was

441
00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:01,970
now why did they separate the two of you

442
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:03,980
do you think and his story is slightly

443
00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:07,760
different obviously than yours I don't

444
00:21:12,659 --> 00:21:10,070
know why they might have separated just

445
00:21:14,980 --> 00:21:12,669
and you know to be honest with you

446
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:14,990
Charlie's got a book out and I never

447
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:17,120
read the book or I never really talked

448
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:19,490
to Charlie about what we'll know because

449
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:21,770
once we got out of this craft and went

450
00:21:26,350 --> 00:21:23,570
through what we did for the next two or

451
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:26,360
three days we was pretty well separated

452
00:21:31,539 --> 00:21:29,330
except for our drive home and all so we

453
00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:31,549
never really talked about this the only

454
00:21:35,889 --> 00:21:33,710
thing we was telling each other don't

455
00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:35,899
tell nobody you know I said Charlie

456
00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:37,700
please don't mention this I don't want

457
00:21:41,649 --> 00:21:39,470
nobody to know I was even involved in

458
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:41,659
none of this and he kept saying well

459
00:21:45,370 --> 00:21:43,010
I've got to tell somebody

460
00:21:47,950 --> 00:21:45,380
I'm gonna call Keesler and Keesler as

461
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:47,960
the local air force base in Biloxi

462
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:50,710
Mississippi and that's who he called and

463
00:21:54,940 --> 00:21:53,330
they told him to call the local

464
00:21:58,480 --> 00:21:54,950
authorities which would be the Sheriff's

465
00:22:00,399 --> 00:21:58,490
Department and that's that's where we

466
00:22:02,380 --> 00:22:00,409
messed up I guess because they must have

467
00:22:05,470 --> 00:22:02,390
told somebody or somebody was listening

468
00:22:07,539 --> 00:22:05,480
in on a scammer or something and Hurley

469
00:22:10,350 --> 00:22:07,549
because back in there were no cell

470
00:22:13,090 --> 00:22:10,360
phones or anything just oh I know

471
00:22:17,019 --> 00:22:13,100
did did you did you drive over to the

472
00:22:19,450 --> 00:22:17,029
police station I did well what what

473
00:22:22,570 --> 00:22:19,460
actually happened when we left the same

474
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:22,580
now when I got back to the car that was

475
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:25,490
a brand-new dolore 73 Rambler Hornet I

476
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:27,110
had just got that little car and it was

477
00:22:32,919 --> 00:22:30,490
new and the windows was shattered on the

478
00:22:36,190 --> 00:22:32,929
passenger side of the car cuz that was

479
00:22:38,860 --> 00:22:36,200
the side facing the craft and we got in

480
00:22:40,649 --> 00:22:38,870
a car and OH trying to crank it they

481
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:40,659
wouldn't crank for

482
00:22:45,450 --> 00:22:43,450
probably 15 minutes and I can remember

483
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:45,460
being amazed that the battery would

484
00:22:49,859 --> 00:22:46,720
stand up that long

485
00:22:53,820 --> 00:22:49,869
oh trying to crank it but it eventually

486
00:22:55,919 --> 00:22:53,830
got busted off and it didn't run real

487
00:22:58,799 --> 00:22:55,929
good for a little while but it leveled

488
00:23:00,599 --> 00:22:58,809
out and we made it to a store and that's

489
00:23:03,570 --> 00:23:00,609
word charlie made the phone call to

490
00:23:05,639 --> 00:23:03,580
Keisler and they told him call the local

491
00:23:07,289 --> 00:23:05,649
authorities and he called the sheriff's

492
00:23:09,570 --> 00:23:07,299
department and they said y'all don't go

493
00:23:11,249 --> 00:23:09,580
nowhere just sit right there will y'all

494
00:23:15,239 --> 00:23:11,259
I guess they thought we was drinking

495
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:15,249
right just leave your leave your beer on

496
00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:19,840
the shelf right in yeah time to had

497
00:23:25,409 --> 00:23:23,830
wanted weird one alright well that's a

498
00:23:27,690 --> 00:23:25,419
that's an incredible story and it

499
00:23:31,259 --> 00:23:27,700
certainly made a quite a bit of

500
00:23:32,909 --> 00:23:31,269
attention how long before the the actual

501
00:23:35,909 --> 00:23:32,919
incident made it into the newspapers

502
00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:35,919
would it have been two days later no the

503
00:23:42,539 --> 00:23:39,700
next morning and if I waited it probably

504
00:23:45,330 --> 00:23:42,549
made it into it that night if I had been

505
00:23:47,549 --> 00:23:45,340
around a newspaper or something but

506
00:23:50,399 --> 00:23:47,559
alright alright gentlemen

507
00:23:52,169 --> 00:23:50,409
yep yep yep go ahead it's our first

508
00:23:54,269 --> 00:23:52,179
break of the evening so do we come back

509
00:24:01,210 --> 00:23:54,279
we'll continue our conversation with

510
00:24:07,940 --> 00:24:05,390
now back to exploring the bazaar with

511
00:24:11,270 --> 00:24:07,950
two of the most electrifying researchers

512
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:11,280
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca

513
00:24:20,990 --> 00:24:17,840
and welcome back to exploring the bazaar

514
00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:21,000
so templates bring a Jerome Clark into

515
00:24:28,510 --> 00:24:25,860
the conversation and Jerome as similarly

516
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:28,520
no okay all right well thank you and

517
00:24:34,190 --> 00:24:30,690
it's it's great to have you back on the

518
00:24:37,550 --> 00:24:34,200
show by the way as Tim alluded to

519
00:24:42,020 --> 00:24:37,560
earlier in the program you two knew each

520
00:24:45,290 --> 00:24:42,030
other when you were teenagers so I mean

521
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:45,300
what what got you interested in the the

522
00:24:51,530 --> 00:24:48,210
whole UFO subject to begin with oh I

523
00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:51,540
read a book that's probably where those

524
00:24:58,220 --> 00:24:55,080
of us who got seriously active in you

525
00:25:00,680 --> 00:24:58,230
know organized ufology most of us got

526
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:00,690
started most of us our generation got

527
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:03,290
started reading the book report

528
00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:05,910
unidentified flying objects by Edward

529
00:25:12,530 --> 00:25:09,540
Group else who was the chief of project

530
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:12,540
Bluebook in the early 1950s and he wrote

531
00:25:18,020 --> 00:25:15,330
this book which was published in 1956 it

532
00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:18,030
was really rare among the books

533
00:25:22,370 --> 00:25:19,920
published at the period of first of all

534
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:22,380
just telling a lot of stuff that the Air

535
00:25:27,650 --> 00:25:25,170
Force had done well it was investigating

536
00:25:31,310 --> 00:25:27,660
UFOs in the late 40s early 50s stuff

537
00:25:33,260 --> 00:25:31,320
that wasn't generally known and Bru pal

538
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:33,270
wrote this book in the tone of a

539
00:25:39,410 --> 00:25:36,960
completely rational open-minded guy and

540
00:25:41,780 --> 00:25:39,420
so you read the book and it I liked a

541
00:25:44,540 --> 00:25:41,790
lot of the UFO literature and then and

542
00:25:46,790 --> 00:25:44,550
how it was you know I didn't insult your

543
00:25:49,460 --> 00:25:46,800
intelligence it just got down to really

544
00:25:57,830 --> 00:25:49,470
what the questions are what the evidence

545
00:26:04,490 --> 00:25:57,840
is and and he kind of let you make up

546
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:04,500
your own mind but we know now that group

547
00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:08,210
al was deeply skeptical Beautiful's but

548
00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:10,500
apparently he figured that if he brought

549
00:26:14,629 --> 00:26:12,840
a book like that it wouldn't sell

550
00:26:16,879 --> 00:26:14,639
mm-hmm but in any case it's still a

551
00:26:20,659 --> 00:26:16,889
pretty good book it's got a lot of us

552
00:26:26,239 --> 00:26:20,669
hooked and Tim I don't know if you're if

553
00:26:28,820 --> 00:26:26,249
you're back on Mike I mean did did you

554
00:26:30,649 --> 00:26:28,830
you think and and you know Jerry can you

555
00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:30,659
know comment on this too when it comes

556
00:26:40,129 --> 00:26:34,440
back that you know when you started all

557
00:26:43,070 --> 00:26:40,139
of this that here it is how many years

558
00:26:50,269 --> 00:26:43,080
later that you would still be involved

559
00:26:54,619 --> 00:26:50,279
in UFOs this you know considering all of

560
00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:54,629
the things that has happened you know in

561
00:27:01,989 --> 00:26:57,720
between when you started and now and it

562
00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:01,999
seems to me that a lot of the stuff is

563
00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:05,580
is is still the same it hasn't changed a

564
00:27:14,269 --> 00:27:11,809
lot you know as as Jerry pointed out a

565
00:27:18,289 --> 00:27:14,279
lot of the books that were being written

566
00:27:21,609 --> 00:27:18,299
at the time are pretty sensational and I

567
00:27:26,899 --> 00:27:21,619
think that you know the same can be said

568
00:27:29,930 --> 00:27:26,909
today so I mean you know not for our

569
00:27:31,879 --> 00:27:29,940
title certainly no no no no but I mean

570
00:27:36,169 --> 00:27:31,889
yeah you know what I you know what I'm

571
00:27:39,499 --> 00:27:36,179
talking about yeah but did you think do

572
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:39,509
I love you I mean do you think that you

573
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,710
do that looking back that when you were

574
00:27:47,899 --> 00:27:45,600
teenagers that you would still be at

575
00:27:49,850 --> 00:27:47,909
this you know how many years later you

576
00:27:56,810 --> 00:27:49,860
know five or six years since you started

577
00:27:59,659 --> 00:27:56,820
I don't think that we were thinking long

578
00:28:02,749 --> 00:27:59,669
term we just stumbled into this it was

579
00:28:05,419 --> 00:28:02,759
fascinating and it was fun and he

580
00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:05,429
started meeting other people like other

581
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:07,830
young people in those days we're

582
00:28:11,239 --> 00:28:09,809
interested in you glad to get to know

583
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:11,249
people from other parts of the country

584
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:15,330
and Tim was publishing even then and I

585
00:28:21,499 --> 00:28:19,049
was the like the associate editor of one

586
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:21,509
of his newsletters you corrected my

587
00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:29,600
and yeah we had a good time but we did I

588
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:30,990
don't think we were thinking long-term

589
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:33,360
we were just living day to day and you

590
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:36,240
know I think I can't speak for Tim but I

591
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:38,010
don't think he would object when I say

592
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:39,570
that I think both of us are kind of

593
00:28:45,289 --> 00:28:42,690
shocked all these years later here we

594
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:45,299
are still talking about this thinking

595
00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:46,890
about it trying to make sense of it and

596
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:51,750
writing about it well okay do you do you

597
00:28:56,410 --> 00:28:53,970
think that much has changed you know in

598
00:28:59,900 --> 00:28:56,420
the whole field from from then to now

599
00:29:02,860 --> 00:28:59,910
well yes and no what one thing remains

600
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:02,870
constant the phenomenon remains beyond

601
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:04,320
human knowledge

602
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:06,720
we just don't know you know the longer

603
00:29:10,580 --> 00:29:09,210
we when we started out I think we all

604
00:29:14,150 --> 00:29:10,590
thought that it was going to be solved

605
00:29:16,159 --> 00:29:14,160
in a few years and then the longer we

606
00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:16,169
were with us a longer we looked at more

607
00:29:22,909 --> 00:29:19,320
complicated God and the stranger it got

608
00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:22,919
and new elements were continually being

609
00:29:29,140 --> 00:29:26,070
added we started with this just core of

610
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:29,150
what we now call daylight disks

611
00:29:35,210 --> 00:29:32,720
sometimes tracked on radar seen by

612
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:35,220
reliable people so it seemed as if there

613
00:29:41,180 --> 00:29:38,910
was really a core of mystery there but

614
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:41,190
over time it just got stranger and

615
00:29:45,919 --> 00:29:44,010
stranger and yes it did change it got

616
00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:45,929
more impenetrable it got harder and

617
00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:49,020
harder to understand to get a grasp on

618
00:29:55,340 --> 00:29:52,260
and we all ran down what turned out to

619
00:29:57,860 --> 00:29:55,350
be blind alleys and if we were paying

620
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,870
attention we had to change our mind as

621
00:30:02,600 --> 00:29:59,760
there's new data and new possibilities

622
00:30:05,330 --> 00:30:02,610
new theories came to light so you know

623
00:30:07,159 --> 00:30:05,340
it's bent me in particularly my later

624
00:30:09,980 --> 00:30:07,169
years I look back on it's just been a

625
00:30:14,510 --> 00:30:09,990
great intellectual challenge it's just

626
00:30:17,180 --> 00:30:14,520
you know it's just very strange and it

627
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:17,190
has taught me if nothing else that just

628
00:30:23,450 --> 00:30:20,610
the kind of hidden dimensions of of life

629
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:23,460
and history and given me kind of a much

630
00:30:29,299 --> 00:30:25,290
fuller and richer sense of the

631
00:30:34,190 --> 00:30:29,309
possibilities of this world so now

632
00:30:38,419 --> 00:30:34,200
looking at Calvin's story which which

633
00:30:39,710 --> 00:30:38,429
took place in 1973 that was a very

634
00:30:42,919 --> 00:30:39,720
interesting year for

635
00:30:46,390 --> 00:30:42,929
UFOs in the United States yeah

636
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:46,400
particularly that month October 1973

637
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:49,530
which was the beginning of perhaps the

638
00:30:56,029 --> 00:30:53,130
last great American wave the phenomenon

639
00:30:58,220 --> 00:30:56,039
had been characterized by a series of

640
00:31:01,039 --> 00:30:58,230
waves that would come on every two three

641
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,049
years there'd be all kinds of sightings

642
00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:04,320
and then the wave would recede and

643
00:31:08,510 --> 00:31:06,360
sightings would continue they always

644
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:08,520
continues but there are periods when

645
00:31:16,190 --> 00:31:11,690
they were just at seemingly incredible

646
00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:16,200
intensity in October 1973 was really the

647
00:31:21,260 --> 00:31:18,360
last one of them in the United States

648
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:21,270
and then the phenomenon seems to have

649
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:24,570
become more diffuse and it continued and

650
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:26,850
people had experiences and sightings and

651
00:31:33,289 --> 00:31:30,240
radar continued tracking strange objects

652
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:33,299
and people saw sometimes entities

653
00:31:39,970 --> 00:31:36,210
associated with with these phenomena and

654
00:31:42,890 --> 00:31:39,980
that went on but not in specifically

655
00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:42,900
wave form and that's one of the changes

656
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:45,630
that have happened over the course of

657
00:31:50,570 --> 00:31:47,970
the phenomenon you know where you know

658
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:50,580
we all know that public awareness of the

659
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:54,330
UFO phenomenon began in June 1947 so we

660
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:56,370
although it certainly was around before

661
00:32:00,049 --> 00:31:58,650
then the only people who seemed to know

662
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:00,059
about it where the people had the

663
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:01,890
experiences which were sometimes

664
00:32:07,940 --> 00:32:05,370
recorded in newspapers or journals or

665
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:07,950
scientific publications but it wasn't

666
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:10,650
until 1947 so when we talk about the UFO

667
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:13,440
phenomenon we usually just for purposes

668
00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:16,890
of convenience began counting in late

669
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:21,270
June 1947 so since 1947 no it hasn't all

670
00:32:28,970 --> 00:32:24,809
been the same it's been a steady

671
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:28,980
addition of odder and odder and weirder

672
00:32:34,820 --> 00:32:31,919
elements and what started out as a

673
00:32:38,270 --> 00:32:34,830
seemingly solvable problem within

674
00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:38,280
current knowledge you're just a somewhat

675
00:32:41,539 --> 00:32:40,470
of something of a slight extension of

676
00:32:44,450 --> 00:32:41,549
current knowledge would be

677
00:32:46,909 --> 00:32:44,460
understandable and explainable when it

678
00:32:49,490 --> 00:32:46,919
started out people who were not thinking

679
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:49,500
of UFOs from outer space that was an

680
00:32:53,139 --> 00:32:52,049
idea that really didn't take hold in the

681
00:32:56,409 --> 00:32:53,149
popular mind

682
00:32:58,690 --> 00:32:56,419
the early 1950s and in the early polling

683
00:33:01,989 --> 00:32:58,700
on the subject in the late summer of

684
00:33:02,979 --> 00:33:01,999
1947 people who thought these could be

685
00:33:06,369 --> 00:33:02,989
interplanetary

686
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:06,379
flying objects that view was so rare it

687
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,399
didn't even register the polls and so

688
00:33:14,349 --> 00:33:12,559
there was over time over the next few

689
00:33:17,229 --> 00:33:14,359
years there was this sort of process of

690
00:33:20,229 --> 00:33:17,239
elimination of the alternative theories

691
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,239
because the first theory of course is

692
00:33:24,369 --> 00:33:22,399
always all it's all nonsense people are

693
00:33:27,399 --> 00:33:24,379
imagining this they're seeing familiar

694
00:33:29,139 --> 00:33:27,409
things and misunderstanding them but in

695
00:33:30,339 --> 00:33:29,149
the phenomenon continued some of these

696
00:33:32,289 --> 00:33:30,349
sightings particularly you know

697
00:33:35,139 --> 00:33:32,299
sightings by Air Force pilots and

698
00:33:38,139 --> 00:33:35,149
airline pilots you know some pretty

699
00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:38,149
reliable people it became clear that to

700
00:33:42,999 --> 00:33:40,940
those who were open-minded about it that

701
00:33:45,969 --> 00:33:43,009
this was a phenomenon that appeared to

702
00:33:49,749 --> 00:33:45,979
be technological and then it was clear

703
00:33:51,639 --> 00:33:49,759
that it wasn't an American technology it

704
00:33:55,629 --> 00:33:51,649
wasn't a Soviet technology it didn't

705
00:33:58,060 --> 00:33:55,639
seem to be anybody's technology and so

706
00:34:00,009 --> 00:33:58,070
finally by the process of elimination by

707
00:34:02,049 --> 00:34:00,019
the early 1950s people were starting to

708
00:34:05,070 --> 00:34:02,059
think about visitors from other planets

709
00:34:07,719 --> 00:34:05,080
and in those days that was Mars with the

710
00:34:10,569 --> 00:34:07,729
suspected planets because even the

711
00:34:14,109 --> 00:34:10,579
stronger thought in those days that Mars

712
00:34:16,299 --> 00:34:14,119
could Harbor intelligent life and we

713
00:34:18,909 --> 00:34:16,309
know of course that Mars does not and

714
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:18,919
could not Harbor intelligent life but in

715
00:34:24,010 --> 00:34:20,690
those days is seeing the reasonable

716
00:34:27,129 --> 00:34:24,020
theory and that's kind of where we start

717
00:34:30,220 --> 00:34:27,139
with the awareness that UFOs are not

718
00:34:33,460 --> 00:34:30,230
ours they're not conventional they're

719
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:33,470
not explainable and we've come a long

720
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:35,450
way since we thought about flying

721
00:34:42,849 --> 00:34:38,690
saucers from Mars and now we have really

722
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:42,859
my sense is in in my late years looking

723
00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:46,490
back at the suspect we're dealing with

724
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:49,369
something that we have a hard time being

725
00:34:58,510 --> 00:34:54,169
conceptualizing yeah it always you know

726
00:35:02,470 --> 00:34:58,520
to me the early days of the modern UFO

727
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:02,480
air as I like to call it from 1947

728
00:35:06,740 --> 00:35:05,599
onward you had these people who who

729
00:35:10,460 --> 00:35:06,750
claimed to have had

730
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,470
encounters with the occupants of these

731
00:35:14,090 --> 00:35:12,720
crafts and you know the occupants would

732
00:35:18,140 --> 00:35:14,100
tell them well yeah you know we're from

733
00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:18,150
Mars or Venus even you know Jupiter like

734
00:35:24,140 --> 00:35:21,660
that but then as time went on and we had

735
00:35:25,820 --> 00:35:24,150
our own probes to these planets and

736
00:35:26,990 --> 00:35:25,830
found that that was pretty much

737
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:27,000
impossible

738
00:35:32,060 --> 00:35:29,510
and then the story started to change

739
00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:32,070
from these occupants you know they they

740
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,440
got further and further out you oh yeah

741
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:36,720
we're from was that a reticular yeah

742
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,930
that's it that a reticular it's a little

743
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:41,520
little more difficult right now to check

744
00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:45,570
up on well Jerry what would you say that

745
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:50,430
the the subject has made it more

746
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:52,890
difficult for us to contemplate I mean

747
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:56,130
is there somebody behind the I would say

748
00:36:02,210 --> 00:35:58,170
controls of the ship but III mean it in

749
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:02,220
a not in quite a literal sense trying to

750
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:05,850
keep us maybe even interested or or are

751
00:36:12,890 --> 00:36:08,880
making us I've always thought that UFOs

752
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:12,900
in a sense are very symbolic to the fact

753
00:36:17,870 --> 00:36:15,720
that it is a thinking process I mean

754
00:36:19,850 --> 00:36:17,880
it's made certainly a lot of us in the

755
00:36:22,730 --> 00:36:19,860
field think about things that we would

756
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:22,740
never have possibly contemplated before

757
00:36:30,020 --> 00:36:26,490
it is it pushing science ahead or

758
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:30,030
keeping it back hmm I I have no idea

759
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:32,640
what is on the other side of this and

760
00:36:40,250 --> 00:36:36,330
what the other side is thinking of

761
00:36:44,270 --> 00:36:40,260
thinking is even relevant yeah I don't

762
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,280
know I mean I think that I I believe

763
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:46,800
that it's possible we're dealing with

764
00:36:51,740 --> 00:36:48,690
two different things and and we're

765
00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:51,750
confusing two categories and part of the

766
00:36:56,660 --> 00:36:54,780
confusion as well as inevitable because

767
00:36:59,240 --> 00:36:56,670
as I say I think this is just beyond

768
00:37:00,140 --> 00:36:59,250
anything we know now or may know for a

769
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:00,150
long time

770
00:37:03,980 --> 00:37:02,970
but I think that when we started out and

771
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:03,990
there were these sightings

772
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:06,210
you know the radar sightings and the

773
00:37:11,660 --> 00:37:08,970
sightings of you know they like disks

774
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:11,670
and metallic looking objects and so on

775
00:37:15,740 --> 00:37:13,050
that may have been a different

776
00:37:19,010 --> 00:37:15,750
phenomenon from the one that that

777
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:19,020
evolved over time the one thing that I

778
00:37:23,059 --> 00:37:20,640
keep going back to

779
00:37:25,339 --> 00:37:23,069
the realization that human beings have

780
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:25,349
been having extraordinary experiences

781
00:37:29,539 --> 00:37:26,910
for as long as have been human beings

782
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:29,549
and they were explained different ways

783
00:37:35,019 --> 00:37:32,640
at different kinds of categories but

784
00:37:38,450 --> 00:37:35,029
these experiences were not just

785
00:37:41,390 --> 00:37:38,460
imaginary or loosen Airy loosen Ettore I

786
00:37:44,089 --> 00:37:41,400
mean they were very strange and dramatic

787
00:37:46,849 --> 00:37:44,099
they were vivid experiences that people

788
00:37:51,289 --> 00:37:46,859
were unlikely to be fooled about and I

789
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:51,299
think that UFOs are connected with kind

790
00:37:58,460 --> 00:37:55,710
of worldwide traditions of supernatural

791
00:38:01,460 --> 00:37:58,470
entities of all kinds now there may be a

792
00:38:03,980 --> 00:38:01,470
core UFO phenomenon which mate which for

793
00:38:07,099 --> 00:38:03,990
all I know is genuinely extraterrestrial

794
00:38:09,319 --> 00:38:07,109
and this is the phenomenon of what I

795
00:38:11,870 --> 00:38:09,329
call the event phenomenon and this is

796
00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:11,880
the where these UFO events happen that

797
00:38:15,799 --> 00:38:13,710
they're really his independent

798
00:38:18,589 --> 00:38:15,809
instrumented evidence if something was

799
00:38:21,759 --> 00:38:18,599
there and that something was had some

800
00:38:25,069 --> 00:38:21,769
kind of fantastic unearthly technology

801
00:38:26,990 --> 00:38:25,079
driving it and of course that was the

802
00:38:30,650 --> 00:38:27,000
phenomenon that we grew up with in the

803
00:38:32,990 --> 00:38:30,660
early years and they learnt okay had you

804
00:38:35,269 --> 00:38:33,000
gone car then different all these other

805
00:38:37,490 --> 00:38:35,279
things be starting we really begin

806
00:38:40,789 --> 00:38:37,500
analysis in the later 60s all these

807
00:38:46,059 --> 00:38:40,799
other strange things seem to get

808
00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:46,069
attached to this core of arguably

809
00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:48,150
extraterrestrial phenomena I'm not

810
00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:49,980
saying that they were extraterrestrial

811
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:51,390
but I think that it is not unreasonable

812
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,720
to speculate like that when you're

813
00:38:59,509 --> 00:38:56,880
dealing with hardcore evidence of

814
00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:59,519
somebody else's technology but then you

815
00:39:08,259 --> 00:39:01,920
begin when did you when did you start

816
00:39:19,970 --> 00:39:15,769
mid 1980s Alan Hynek asked me to which

817
00:39:23,980 --> 00:39:19,980
was this magazine mm-hmm and had he

818
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:23,990
mentioned the the Pascagoula incident

819
00:39:29,839 --> 00:39:26,970
you know we talked about so many things

820
00:39:33,230 --> 00:39:29,849
over the 10 years that I was around him

821
00:39:34,430 --> 00:39:33,240
he died in 1986 his I started being

822
00:39:37,420 --> 00:39:34,440
around him a lot

823
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:37,430
10-12 years before that I don't

824
00:39:44,060 --> 00:39:39,930
specifically remember his talking about

825
00:39:46,220 --> 00:39:44,070
Pascagoula but he may have you know I we

826
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:46,230
as I say we talked about so many

827
00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:48,240
different things in my memory his buddy

828
00:39:52,670 --> 00:39:50,430
used to be yeah so I just can't tell you

829
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:52,680
but he was certainly interested in cases

830
00:39:59,810 --> 00:39:56,240
like basketball and you know abduction

831
00:40:02,300 --> 00:39:59,820
stories and high strangeness UFO cases

832
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:02,310
and we would talk about that and we'd

833
00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:04,560
sometimes argue about how we need how to

834
00:40:11,350 --> 00:40:08,220
interpret these things now he started

835
00:40:14,780 --> 00:40:11,360
getting towards the the end of his

836
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:14,790
career a little bit more liberal-minded

837
00:40:20,260 --> 00:40:17,210
I mean we think of him as the mighty

838
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:20,270
astronomer and the pipe smoking a

839
00:40:26,210 --> 00:40:23,250
scientist who of course was in Close

840
00:40:27,830 --> 00:40:26,220
Encounters but I met him several times I

841
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:27,840
can't say that we were close associates

842
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:30,570
or anything but I did do a spent the

843
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:33,000
whole afternoon with him one time doing

844
00:40:39,890 --> 00:40:37,110
an interview for UFO report magazine and

845
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:39,900
he talked about some fairly incredible

846
00:40:46,090 --> 00:40:43,530
things there including visitations by

847
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:46,100
men and black and UFO witnesses being

848
00:40:53,420 --> 00:40:50,370
threatened and so forth well first of

849
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:53,430
all Alan's for much of his life had a

850
00:40:59,900 --> 00:40:57,720
mystical side I mean that's true and so

851
00:41:03,170 --> 00:40:59,910
eventually he be through the

852
00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:03,180
encouragement of Jacques Soleil he began

853
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:05,250
to incorporating the kind of mystical

854
00:41:10,490 --> 00:41:07,910
occult side of his personality which

855
00:41:13,150 --> 00:41:10,500
ordinarily he kept out of public view

856
00:41:15,770 --> 00:41:13,160
for obvious reasons but he began

857
00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:15,780
incorporating those ideas and talking

858
00:41:21,710 --> 00:41:19,320
somewhat incautiously in public about

859
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:21,720
how these things might apply to UFOs of

860
00:41:26,180 --> 00:41:24,000
course the debunkers were thrilled to

861
00:41:29,090 --> 00:41:26,190
hear this because they could use that to

862
00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:29,100
beat him up with which they did but now

863
00:41:33,590 --> 00:41:31,110
on was was involved in things that have

864
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:33,600
never been particularly if any interest

865
00:41:39,980 --> 00:41:37,170
to me namely you know like boo Dolph

866
00:41:41,540 --> 00:41:39,990
Steiner and Rosicrucianism and I just

867
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:41,550
not interested in those things I might

868
00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:43,440
even talk about that my eyes are kind of

869
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:45,660
glazed over

870
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:48,240
I just wish that he wouldn't talk about

871
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:51,210
them publicly mmm

872
00:41:55,009 --> 00:41:53,130
know what I mean he was also very

873
00:41:57,019 --> 00:41:55,019
serious scientist I don't want it I

874
00:41:59,480 --> 00:41:57,029
don't want yes yes I like that

875
00:42:02,900 --> 00:41:59,490
he loves science and he was a serious

876
00:42:06,499 --> 00:42:02,910
scientist so he did also have a a keen

877
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:06,509
analytical side to his intelligence well

878
00:42:11,269 --> 00:42:08,130
that's why if you ask me that would be a

879
00:42:14,859 --> 00:42:11,279
fairly well-balanced individual you

880
00:42:18,650 --> 00:42:14,869
don't find many people in the scientific

881
00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:18,660
community who have a very open mind

882
00:42:25,220 --> 00:42:22,710
towards now most of this now it could be

883
00:42:28,549 --> 00:42:25,230
changing I don't know because I never

884
00:42:33,289 --> 00:42:28,559
claimed to be a scientist nor have I

885
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:33,299
ever hung out really with academics but

886
00:42:39,740 --> 00:42:37,200
I mean you you should seem to feel that

887
00:42:42,140 --> 00:42:39,750
there are some involvement

888
00:42:45,950 --> 00:42:42,150
well now the Center for UFO studies who

889
00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:45,960
what was this main body of members well

890
00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:49,079
it was of course it was started by Alan

891
00:42:56,690 --> 00:42:52,740
and Sherman Larsen who had a small local

892
00:42:59,569 --> 00:42:56,700
Chicago UFO group and someone Larsen

893
00:43:01,339 --> 00:42:59,579
yeah Ellen and insure work together

894
00:43:03,230 --> 00:43:01,349
Sherman was an insurance salesman they

895
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:03,240
were very different in their

896
00:43:07,759 --> 00:43:05,490
personalities and education the way they

897
00:43:10,220 --> 00:43:07,769
thought but I think they were probably a

898
00:43:12,380 --> 00:43:10,230
good pair because Sherman had good

899
00:43:14,450 --> 00:43:12,390
organizational skills he knew how to put

900
00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:14,460
together a group how to operate a

901
00:43:20,930 --> 00:43:16,380
business and all those things that Alan

902
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:20,940
had no clue about nor do I but so he and

903
00:43:26,029 --> 00:43:22,970
Sherm work together productively and and

904
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:26,039
so Alan took his idea for a group called

905
00:43:32,660 --> 00:43:29,970
the Center for UFO studies and combined

906
00:43:35,630 --> 00:43:32,670
it with Sherm's little local UFO group

907
00:43:37,849 --> 00:43:35,640
and that was the core of the Center for

908
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:37,859
UFO studies and I think that was in late

909
00:43:44,109 --> 00:43:41,609
1973 in the wake of the of the big wave

910
00:43:48,349 --> 00:43:44,119
that Calvin's experience was part of

911
00:43:51,140 --> 00:43:48,359
mm-hmm now do you remember any specific

912
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:51,150
incidents from that that the period

913
00:43:57,230 --> 00:43:55,200
outside of Pascagoula well of course the

914
00:43:59,120 --> 00:43:57,240
most famous cases right there are two

915
00:44:02,330 --> 00:43:59,130
classic cases the other one was the

916
00:44:04,370 --> 00:44:02,340
coin helicopter incident in Manziel Ohio

917
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:04,380
that occurred exactly one week after

918
00:44:08,090 --> 00:44:05,370
Calvin

919
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:08,100
Charlie Hickson's experience and that

920
00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:11,490
was a Connor with a helicopter that was

921
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:14,040
apparently levitated in an aerial

922
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:15,930
encounter with the UFO which shot a

923
00:44:23,300 --> 00:44:19,440
green beam at it and a plane

924
00:44:25,940 --> 00:44:23,310
there was a 1,800 feet good was a

925
00:44:27,410 --> 00:44:25,950
descent that really could not be

926
00:44:29,210 --> 00:44:27,420
accounted for and the incident was

927
00:44:32,330 --> 00:44:29,220
witnessed by various people on the

928
00:44:35,950 --> 00:44:32,340
ground was investigated meticulously by

929
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:35,960
Jenny Zeidman who was associated with

930
00:44:44,330 --> 00:44:39,930
and it actually met I actually met I

931
00:44:48,370 --> 00:44:44,340
actually met him he appeared at the UN

932
00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:48,380
UFO community was one of the Lauren mine

933
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:52,920
yes mm-hmm there were four guys in the

934
00:44:59,540 --> 00:44:56,400
helicopter and he was baby guy in charge

935
00:45:03,590 --> 00:44:59,550
yeah and you said there was one other

936
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:03,600
case you remember well there were two

937
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:07,170
cases that really you know stand out in

938
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:11,040
memory from that way and then there was

939
00:45:14,990 --> 00:45:13,440
you know the Pascagoula case which is

940
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:15,000
remembered because it's so incredibly

941
00:45:20,210 --> 00:45:17,730
strange and just you know you know

942
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:20,220
unsettling one of these incidents were

943
00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:21,930
two guys they're just mind your own

944
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:23,430
business and living their ordinary lives

945
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:26,370
and suddenly disrupted by something that

946
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:28,710
they could never have imagined was even

947
00:45:37,070 --> 00:45:30,690
possible much less that it could happen

948
00:45:38,510 --> 00:45:37,080
to them and but of course in the end the

949
00:45:41,090 --> 00:45:38,520
Pascagoula case although there were

950
00:45:42,530 --> 00:45:41,100
people who did see strange objects that

951
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:42,540
one of which may have actually been the

952
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:45,690
UFO that that took Galvin to Charlie but

953
00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:49,050
you know that was these were the two

954
00:45:53,870 --> 00:45:51,630
guys who had the full experience with a

955
00:45:55,340 --> 00:45:53,880
coin case there were there was four guys

956
00:45:58,460 --> 00:45:55,350
a helicopter and there were people on

957
00:46:01,880 --> 00:45:58,470
the ground separate groups of people

958
00:46:04,780 --> 00:46:01,890
independently witnessed this so you know

959
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:04,790
it's an incredibly evidential case

960
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:07,730
and then it stood up you know attempts

961
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:11,330
many attempts to debunk it was it picked

962
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:15,290
up on radar the UFO no no

963
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:17,930
well that isn't that kind of strange

964
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:20,690
that it wasn't do you think yeah no no

965
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:24,650
because radar doesn't cover 100% of this

966
00:46:30,250 --> 00:46:27,440
guy and that's what covered many places

967
00:46:32,830 --> 00:46:30,260
particularly that radar was interested

968
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:32,840
in it was just it wasn't him just like

969
00:46:38,410 --> 00:46:36,290
my memory is hazy of course but it was

970
00:46:40,260 --> 00:46:38,420
an I believe just a you know routine

971
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:40,270
flight that had no larger significance

972
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:43,610
no there's nobody nobody thought that

973
00:46:49,380 --> 00:46:45,290
there should be radar I only I don't

974
00:46:50,940 --> 00:46:49,390
think even debunker like fell class

975
00:46:55,090 --> 00:46:50,950
racehorses

976
00:46:59,320 --> 00:46:55,100
don't upset my stomach I just say okay

977
00:47:00,910 --> 00:46:59,330
well now there were the abduction

978
00:47:04,510 --> 00:47:00,920
phenomena I guess was just kind of

979
00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:04,520
coming to the forefront I mean of course

980
00:47:09,940 --> 00:47:08,030
it was Betty and Barney Hill but they

981
00:47:12,340 --> 00:47:09,950
were they were in increasing a number

982
00:47:14,380 --> 00:47:12,350
and this might have been the the

983
00:47:18,810 --> 00:47:14,390
incident perhaps that tipped the scale

984
00:47:22,420 --> 00:47:18,820
as far as the national attention went

985
00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:22,430
yeah well of course the hill case was

986
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:23,920
the one that got all the attention but

987
00:47:28,900 --> 00:47:26,720
yes I think that in terms of bringing

988
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:28,910
the phenomenon to larger attention the

989
00:47:32,140 --> 00:47:31,130
Pascagoula case certainly has a large

990
00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:32,150
role in that

991
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:34,160
alright gentlemen only interrupt you

992
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:35,570
here because we have to go to our top of

993
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:37,130
the hour break so when we come back

994
00:47:41,620 --> 00:47:38,960
we'll bring Calvin back into the

995
00:47:52,690 --> 00:47:41,630
conversation with more or in the besides

996
00:47:59,640 --> 00:47:57,160
explode the bazaars or e-ticket ride

997
00:48:02,920 --> 00:47:59,650
into the world of the paranoid

998
00:48:05,940 --> 00:48:02,930
strap yourself e'en as we traverse the

999
00:48:10,349 --> 00:48:05,950
universe exploring the unexplained UFO

1000
00:48:12,730 --> 00:48:10,359
of ghosts Lost Worlds

1001
00:48:16,569 --> 00:48:12,740
cryptozoology waters as well as other

1002
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:16,579
dimensions it's time to take back the

1003
00:48:24,220 --> 00:48:20,960
night last night now your electrifying

1004
00:48:30,579 --> 00:48:24,230
hosts of exploring the bizarre Timothy

1005
00:48:32,859 --> 00:48:30,589
Begley and Tim Schwartz welcome back to

1006
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:32,869
the second hour of exploring the bizarre

1007
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,150
tonight we are talking with Calvin

1008
00:48:44,290 --> 00:48:37,520
Parker and Jerry Clark we're talking

1009
00:48:48,660 --> 00:48:44,300
about Calvin Parkers 1973 UFO experience

1010
00:48:51,550 --> 00:48:48,670
encounter at Pascagoula Mississippi so

1011
00:48:53,380 --> 00:48:51,560
Jerry you said that you had some

1012
00:48:54,220 --> 00:48:53,390
questions that you'd like to ask Calvin

1013
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:54,230
so go right ahead

1014
00:48:58,540 --> 00:48:57,170
yeah Calvin this Jerry Clark and I just

1015
00:49:00,210 --> 00:48:58,550
want to say before I say anything else

1016
00:49:02,650 --> 00:49:00,220
it's really an honor to talk with you

1017
00:49:04,420 --> 00:49:02,660
I've been familiar with you for a long

1018
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:04,430
time I never thought I would actually be

1019
00:49:12,579 --> 00:49:06,800
talking with you so well the hours

1020
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:12,589
really right here were may well I don't

1021
00:49:19,630 --> 00:49:15,680
know about that but I I I was reading

1022
00:49:22,750 --> 00:49:19,640
your book this this week and really read

1023
00:49:25,359 --> 00:49:22,760
you know reading it with interest and I

1024
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:25,369
was particularly understood in the

1025
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:28,400
account that I was unaware of and Budd

1026
00:49:32,410 --> 00:49:30,530
Hopkins was a very good friend of mine

1027
00:49:34,329 --> 00:49:32,420
by the way but he had never mentioned

1028
00:49:36,670 --> 00:49:34,339
this to me for some reason I guess they

1029
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:36,680
just had a lot to talk about when we get

1030
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:40,310
together and it never came up but this

1031
00:49:45,819 --> 00:49:43,130
you talk about this is all new to me

1032
00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:45,829
this encounter with with this was it a

1033
00:49:53,290 --> 00:49:49,540
woman or some kind of female entity

1034
00:49:56,530 --> 00:49:53,300
that's what I'm guessing oh you know

1035
00:49:59,800 --> 00:49:56,540
it's really hard to say there was just

1036
00:50:02,650 --> 00:49:59,810
an entity but it looked kinda like a

1037
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,660
female instead of a male you know a male

1038
00:50:07,940 --> 00:50:05,040
usually is bulky and

1039
00:50:11,780 --> 00:50:07,950
a little bit she was coming feminine now

1040
00:50:13,730 --> 00:50:11,790
I did look to see if I could see breasts

1041
00:50:17,150 --> 00:50:13,740
or anything like that and I couldn't see

1042
00:50:21,050 --> 00:50:17,160
nothing like that you know owner trying

1043
00:50:24,860 --> 00:50:21,060
to distinguish was this like a like a

1044
00:50:26,510 --> 00:50:24,870
kind of female equivalent to the this

1045
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:26,520
other character you were dealing with

1046
00:50:35,420 --> 00:50:28,770
who you felt was male I mean was it the

1047
00:50:38,570 --> 00:50:35,430
same no this is I don't see any relation

1048
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:38,580
to as far as I'm concerned to the one

1049
00:50:46,580 --> 00:50:42,510
that all the the male that what I call

1050
00:50:49,460 --> 00:50:46,590
the big ugly one in this one oh you know

1051
00:50:52,550 --> 00:50:49,470
like in animal kingdom usually the male

1052
00:50:54,890 --> 00:50:52,560
is the better-looking one because I got

1053
00:50:59,450 --> 00:50:54,900
more feathers and more colors and I like

1054
00:51:03,080 --> 00:50:59,460
that but in this you know you could look

1055
00:51:05,330 --> 00:51:03,090
and tell that this was pure able looking

1056
00:51:08,330 --> 00:51:05,340
them the robotic looking the creature

1057
00:51:11,780 --> 00:51:08,340
that I seen and I think the reason bud

1058
00:51:13,970 --> 00:51:11,790
never mentioned it but has always been a

1059
00:51:16,610 --> 00:51:13,980
man of his word from what I understood

1060
00:51:18,830 --> 00:51:16,620
because I talked to him several times on

1061
00:51:20,540 --> 00:51:18,840
the phone after that and he promised me

1062
00:51:22,550 --> 00:51:20,550
he would never tell nobody to bring it

1063
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:22,560
up in any of his conferences or anything

1064
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:25,920
like that and then but it's a shame I

1065
00:51:36,020 --> 00:51:28,050
never didn't know when he even passed

1066
00:51:39,980 --> 00:51:36,030
away yeah but is a good guy but in your

1067
00:51:45,740 --> 00:51:39,990
book you talk about this now this female

1068
00:51:50,690 --> 00:51:45,750
I mean was this like a like a human

1069
00:51:54,620 --> 00:51:50,700
being with skin and all that I didn't

1070
00:51:59,210 --> 00:51:54,630
see any hair and the skin was more like

1071
00:52:02,660 --> 00:51:59,220
a y'all well it's hard to really

1072
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:02,670
describe the skin it was a grayish

1073
00:52:10,070 --> 00:52:07,170
looking color like Oh like I had been

1074
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:10,080
seeing and I described it one time kind

1075
00:52:14,090 --> 00:52:12,210
of like a manatees Canyon in a way you

1076
00:52:16,490 --> 00:52:14,100
know you look at these manatees that

1077
00:52:18,089 --> 00:52:16,500
swim around in Florida that kind of

1078
00:52:20,969 --> 00:52:18,099
resembles their skinning

1079
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:20,979
except it was a it wasn't as wrinkled

1080
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:22,720
and all of that but it was about the

1081
00:52:30,359 --> 00:52:27,729
same colors as the skiing man and all I

1082
00:52:33,259 --> 00:52:30,369
all I know was you know she was pretty

1083
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:33,269
treacherous if it wasn't she

1084
00:52:40,589 --> 00:52:38,170
well now when you came out of the

1085
00:52:43,229 --> 00:52:40,599
immediate aftermath of your experience

1086
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:43,239
and you know you and Charlie are trying

1087
00:52:48,930 --> 00:52:46,450
to come down and you're taking you you

1088
00:52:52,859 --> 00:52:48,940
know a while to process all this and

1089
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:52,869
over the the days that that passed after

1090
00:52:56,370 --> 00:52:53,920
the experience

1091
00:53:00,200 --> 00:52:56,380
did you remember this clearly this

1092
00:53:04,289 --> 00:53:00,210
encounter with this female I did Oh

1093
00:53:06,089 --> 00:53:04,299
but the thing were the thing about this

1094
00:53:09,539 --> 00:53:06,099
when we come out I didn't want to talk

1095
00:53:12,569 --> 00:53:09,549
about none of this so Charlie and I said

1096
00:53:15,059 --> 00:53:12,579
on the pier after after this and this

1097
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:15,069
happened to us and I said Charlie I'm

1098
00:53:19,259 --> 00:53:16,960
not talking about it I don't want to

1099
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:19,269
talk about it well he said well I'll

1100
00:53:22,890 --> 00:53:21,130
think of something he said I'll just

1101
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,900
tell him you passed out or something

1102
00:53:26,670 --> 00:53:24,880
said I don't care what you tell him I

1103
00:53:27,299 --> 00:53:26,680
just don't want to talk about this to

1104
00:53:30,539 --> 00:53:27,309
nobody

1105
00:53:32,089 --> 00:53:30,549
I had though I said passing out sounds

1106
00:53:35,999 --> 00:53:32,099
like a good deal to me

1107
00:53:38,009 --> 00:53:36,009
so that's kind of the story we stayed

1108
00:53:40,529 --> 00:53:38,019
with and Charlie stayed with that I

1109
00:53:44,999 --> 00:53:40,539
guess to protect my feelings and no

1110
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:45,009
because I had known him as a child for

1111
00:53:49,410 --> 00:53:46,930
years and I really looked up to Charlie

1112
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:49,420
you know he was a constable there in

1113
00:53:53,969 --> 00:53:51,729
Sandersville and law enforcement then

1114
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:53,979
though I thought a lot of his children

1115
00:53:59,459 --> 00:53:56,710
and him and his whole family would I

1116
00:54:01,499 --> 00:53:59,469
remember on weekends we would all go

1117
00:54:03,630 --> 00:54:01,509
over and eat at each others house and

1118
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:03,640
all the kids were playing he had a

1119
00:54:08,039 --> 00:54:06,160
little farm out there we got to enjoy

1120
00:54:12,180 --> 00:54:08,049
some of the cattle you know watching

1121
00:54:13,709 --> 00:54:12,190
them but uh and I think I put Charlie

1122
00:54:18,479 --> 00:54:13,719
into protection mode

1123
00:54:20,579 --> 00:54:18,489
I even remember one time limo I was we

1124
00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:20,589
went fishing together on the Pearl River

1125
00:54:25,380 --> 00:54:23,440
and I fell off in the water and Charlie

1126
00:54:28,019 --> 00:54:25,390
didn't hesitate at all to come off and

1127
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:28,029
there and get me and you know I was just

1128
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:31,130
a young boy so

1129
00:54:38,830 --> 00:54:34,130
to me you know he was like a hero yeah I

1130
00:54:41,590 --> 00:54:38,840
sound like a good guy I know you talked

1131
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:41,600
about this in in the book you described

1132
00:54:47,530 --> 00:54:45,200
the female entity is really menacing and

1133
00:54:51,220 --> 00:54:47,540
evil and you and you thought she was

1134
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:51,230
going to do harm and you hated her did

1135
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:54,410
was that what you thought about like in

1136
00:55:03,330 --> 00:54:57,170
the aftermath of the experience or did

1137
00:55:06,550 --> 00:55:03,340
that come out in 1993 with hypnosis a

1138
00:55:10,030 --> 00:55:06,560
lot of it came out and hypnosis and to

1139
00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:10,040
be honest we I have the original tape

1140
00:55:15,910 --> 00:55:13,430
one of the original tapes a bird had let

1141
00:55:18,610 --> 00:55:15,920
me hypnotize me and I've never listened

1142
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:18,620
to it all the way through because he put

1143
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:20,930
like a posthypnotic suggestion in my

1144
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:23,450
head that as I could handle it I could

1145
00:55:28,690 --> 00:55:26,450
remember it and though I didn't want to

1146
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:28,700
listen above and get a get ahead of

1147
00:55:34,810 --> 00:55:31,970
myself and get any kind of all ideals

1148
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,820
that's not original in my head of course

1149
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:37,280
them came out of my head I guess but I

1150
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:40,160
wasn't sure after this and he didn't

1151
00:55:45,010 --> 00:55:42,770
implant them you know I'm sure you're

1152
00:55:48,100 --> 00:55:45,020
aware of the controversy about hypnosis

1153
00:55:49,980 --> 00:55:48,110
and you know people who are unwilling to

1154
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:49,990
accept accounts of abductions

1155
00:55:55,780 --> 00:55:52,130
experiences that are retrieved through

1156
00:55:58,240 --> 00:55:55,790
hypnosis say well it just made it up or

1157
00:56:00,250 --> 00:55:58,250
the hypnotist led you to believe this

1158
00:56:02,860 --> 00:56:00,260
happen but it didn't really happen

1159
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:02,870
so that's that's why I'm asking this

1160
00:56:05,890 --> 00:56:04,610
question because I'm just trying to get

1161
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:05,900
it clear in my own head

1162
00:56:10,420 --> 00:56:08,480
I think that bud was a very good

1163
00:56:12,130 --> 00:56:10,430
hypnotist and he was really sensitive to

1164
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:12,140
these questions the fact that I know it

1165
00:56:16,180 --> 00:56:13,850
was but they're always going to be

1166
00:56:18,730 --> 00:56:16,190
raised and so I'm asked so that's why I

1167
00:56:21,220 --> 00:56:18,740
want to know how much of this stuff

1168
00:56:25,780 --> 00:56:21,230
you remembered consciously before the

1169
00:56:27,820 --> 00:56:25,790
hypnosis I remember a good deal of it

1170
00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:27,830
you know consciously but I don't

1171
00:56:34,570 --> 00:56:31,310
remember all the details that was in and

1172
00:56:38,050 --> 00:56:34,580
oh well like for example one thing that

1173
00:56:41,650 --> 00:56:38,060
oh that I didn't remember when we

1174
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:41,660
originally come off in 73 there was a

1175
00:56:47,780 --> 00:56:44,970
car after and I remember seeing the car

1176
00:56:49,700 --> 00:56:47,790
clearly you know I but I didn't want to

1177
00:56:52,820 --> 00:56:49,710
take time to see they seen anything or

1178
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:52,830
not but I called the tag number out well

1179
00:56:57,740 --> 00:56:55,440
but had me hypnotized and here recently

1180
00:57:00,440 --> 00:56:57,750
I checked out that tag number we was

1181
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:00,450
able to go back and look it up and I

1182
00:57:07,460 --> 00:57:04,290
actually found the people that was

1183
00:57:10,190 --> 00:57:07,470
involved in that now one of them is they

1184
00:57:12,830 --> 00:57:10,200
got married they was there partying one

1185
00:57:15,140 --> 00:57:12,840
of them passed away they got endo the

1186
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:15,150
other ones in a nursing home now we'll

1187
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:17,730
kind of dementia in a way but she did

1188
00:57:21,410 --> 00:57:19,530
remember that but she didn't want her

1189
00:57:23,780 --> 00:57:21,420
Lane broke up or anything so out of

1190
00:57:26,810 --> 00:57:23,790
respect her you know I didn't tell what

1191
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:26,820
nursing home she's in or all her name or

1192
00:57:31,820 --> 00:57:29,730
anything but that was for me there when

1193
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:31,830
I looked her up that was strictly for me

1194
00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:35,460
to confirm this part of the hypnosis

1195
00:57:42,580 --> 00:57:40,200
session because I've seen acts on TV I

1196
00:57:46,220 --> 00:57:42,590
don't know if it was acts or not world

1197
00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:46,230
somebody was in Las Vegas you know the

1198
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:48,510
hypnotized the whole audience and I

1199
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:51,450
always thought that was bull and I just

1200
00:57:58,030 --> 00:57:54,810
wasn't real sure about it but on the

1201
00:58:00,829 --> 00:57:58,040
other hand when I went in to agree when

1202
00:58:02,359 --> 00:58:00,839
when I found bud at this conference in

1203
00:58:03,070 --> 00:58:02,369
that friend of mine I was telling you

1204
00:58:06,859 --> 00:58:03,080
about

1205
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:06,869
or had mentioned he was a good friend of

1206
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:10,170
mine he was very very smart he was in

1207
00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:11,250
the medical field

1208
00:58:18,050 --> 00:58:14,609
he used to end meant different things in

1209
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:18,060
the all for the medical field and also

1210
00:58:23,329 --> 00:58:20,730
he you know he was up and I trusted him

1211
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:23,339
and he went in with me and I got him to

1212
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:25,050
sit right there and I said don't let

1213
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:27,839
this man clean anything phony in my head

1214
00:58:33,370 --> 00:58:30,570
and I even told it in front of bud you

1215
00:58:37,730 --> 00:58:33,380
know we had a long deep conversation and

1216
00:58:41,930 --> 00:58:37,740
him and all his wife were in the room

1217
00:58:44,089 --> 00:58:41,940
with me and you know they agreed to keep

1218
00:58:46,940 --> 00:58:44,099
it quiet and not tell me nothing about

1219
00:58:49,490 --> 00:58:46,950
it because that's what bud wanted and

1220
00:58:51,740 --> 00:58:49,500
wanting me to remember it on my own and

1221
00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:51,750
I wanted them to watch but Hopkins cuz I

1222
00:58:55,980 --> 00:58:53,940
didn't know but Hopkins from anybody at

1223
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:55,990
this time

1224
00:59:01,530 --> 00:58:59,440
so that's our amount of distrust well it

1225
00:59:03,870 --> 00:59:01,540
sounds like you went into this with some

1226
00:59:07,950 --> 00:59:03,880
you know proper and intelligent caution

1227
00:59:10,140 --> 00:59:07,960
and you know I know from you know you

1228
00:59:12,300 --> 00:59:10,150
didn't know bud and and you did the

1229
00:59:14,820 --> 00:59:12,310
right thing and calling in you're you

1230
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:14,830
know you're qualified friend I do but

1231
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:16,720
for many years and he was really a

1232
00:59:22,260 --> 00:59:19,570
conscientious guy you know he he was

1233
00:59:24,780 --> 00:59:22,270
really on the side of the you know the

1234
00:59:27,390 --> 00:59:24,790
witnesses he dealt with he really wanted

1235
00:59:29,370 --> 00:59:27,400
to right by them and he felt that they'd

1236
00:59:32,190 --> 00:59:29,380
been through enough and he didn't want

1237
00:59:34,830 --> 00:59:32,200
to add to their burden so but I have

1238
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:34,840
note one more question for you now in

1239
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:36,970
your in the account in you in the book

1240
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:40,170
which I believe is the hypnosis stuff

1241
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:43,930
you talk about how this female was

1242
00:59:48,270 --> 00:59:45,910
clawing at your eyes and you thought

1243
00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:48,280
that she was going to by trying to claw

1244
00:59:56,250 --> 00:59:51,790
your eyes out well that's what I thought

1245
00:59:58,320 --> 00:59:56,260
because originally she went in and she

1246
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:58,330
run her fingers down my throat and tried

1247
01:00:02,910 --> 01:00:00,640
to come up in my nasal cavities from the

1248
01:00:06,349 --> 01:00:02,920
inside I guess that's what she was

1249
01:00:09,359 --> 01:00:06,359
trying and I was in a lot of pain and

1250
01:00:13,140 --> 01:00:09,369
when it was my dream one got stared up

1251
01:00:16,349 --> 01:00:13,150
and you know I guess she had a temper

1252
01:00:18,510 --> 01:00:16,359
also and I had a temper because I at

1253
01:00:20,820 --> 01:00:18,520
this time in my life I was tired of

1254
01:00:23,460 --> 01:00:20,830
being messed with all I wanted to do was

1255
01:00:26,070 --> 01:00:23,470
go fishing eat my lunch go back home

1256
01:00:28,890 --> 01:00:26,080
cleaning my fish and you know be with my

1257
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:28,900
family and then they just pull you out

1258
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:31,510
of clear blue air and that really upsets

1259
01:00:38,820 --> 01:00:35,650
you oh yeah so but but but but when you

1260
01:00:41,849 --> 01:00:38,830
came out of the experience with the one

1261
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:41,859
on the river with Charlie they were your

1262
01:00:52,410 --> 01:00:48,490
eyes bleeding no I remember them being

1263
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:52,420
irritated really bad it was kind of like

1264
01:00:57,300 --> 01:00:54,850
but what I chopped that up too you know

1265
01:01:00,120 --> 01:00:57,310
we worked in a shipyard and we was

1266
01:01:02,460 --> 01:01:00,130
around welding all day long and if you

1267
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:02,470
don't put your helmet on and you watch

1268
01:01:08,580 --> 01:01:05,530
somebody weld in your eyes you get what

1269
01:01:09,860 --> 01:01:08,590
they call the blue eye and you have to

1270
01:01:11,630 --> 01:01:09,870
really treat them

1271
01:01:13,460 --> 01:01:11,640
might be two or three days for you see

1272
01:01:17,620 --> 01:01:13,470
again and that's what I was kind of

1273
01:01:21,020 --> 01:01:17,630
chalking all that up to then yeah and

1274
01:01:24,380 --> 01:01:21,030
even even that's what they treated me

1275
01:01:27,380 --> 01:01:24,390
for when I was all went to the hospital

1276
01:01:31,490 --> 01:01:27,390
the next day after all and got the

1277
01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:31,500
examination now I would give anything if

1278
01:01:37,730 --> 01:01:33,510
we could come up with the hospital

1279
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:37,740
records for the indica because of what

1280
01:01:44,150 --> 01:01:39,690
they said and the bloodwork and things

1281
01:01:46,820 --> 01:01:44,160
like that that they perform but Katrina

1282
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:46,830
came by and back then they didn't keep

1283
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:50,010
all computers you know where you could

1284
01:01:55,310 --> 01:01:52,650
back the backlog they put it on the desk

1285
01:01:58,130 --> 01:01:55,320
and send it somewhere else everything

1286
01:02:00,050 --> 01:01:58,140
was about hand and that's what a lot of

1287
01:02:02,660 --> 01:02:00,060
people don't understand what wanting you

1288
01:02:04,490 --> 01:02:02,670
call here you had a phone wanted you

1289
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:04,500
take picture you don't have cell phones

1290
01:02:09,710 --> 01:02:07,680
back in you didn't have computers you

1291
01:02:14,090 --> 01:02:09,720
didn't have the information highway that

1292
01:02:16,730 --> 01:02:14,100
you have now I know it all I had written

1293
01:02:20,540 --> 01:02:16,740
a book back then that wouldn't have got

1294
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:20,550
off the newsstand but nowadays you got

1295
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:23,010
this computer here and you got thousands

1296
01:02:28,940 --> 01:02:25,920
of people that uh are interested and

1297
01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:28,950
come in and look at it and read it it's

1298
01:02:33,140 --> 01:02:31,020
just amazing the information that you

1299
01:02:35,690 --> 01:02:33,150
can get your hands on I didn't even know

1300
01:02:38,900 --> 01:02:35,700
what a UFO was I had never looked into

1301
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:38,910
that or heard of anything such as a UFO

1302
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:42,570
now I did think that I was scared by a

1303
01:02:47,930 --> 01:02:45,450
ghost a time or two in my life but um

1304
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:47,940
that might have been something else so

1305
01:02:53,330 --> 01:02:50,160
you know I'm not putting it out there

1306
01:02:58,550 --> 01:02:53,340
right now what was that before or after

1307
01:03:03,050 --> 01:02:58,560
the UFO abduction oh this was back when

1308
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:03,060
Kennedy was assassinated and that's the

1309
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:04,770
time frame that I'm putting it in

1310
01:03:08,450 --> 01:03:06,000
because I remember him being

1311
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:08,460
assassinated not too long after that my

1312
01:03:13,370 --> 01:03:10,770
brother and I shared a room together

1313
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:13,380
because we had a small house you know a

1314
01:03:19,100 --> 01:03:16,410
couple of bedrooms so they all put the

1315
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:19,110
kids in one room and we shared a room in

1316
01:03:23,220 --> 01:03:22,170
there together and even he woke up

1317
01:03:26,370 --> 01:03:23,230
screaming and said

1318
01:03:28,770 --> 01:03:26,380
he's seen something all messing with my

1319
01:03:30,930 --> 01:03:28,780
ear or something in there and and I had

1320
01:03:35,190 --> 01:03:30,940
felt it I had heard it that night and it

1321
01:03:37,980 --> 01:03:35,200
scared me then and you know it did him

1322
01:03:40,050 --> 01:03:37,990
and he was afraid to even be in the same

1323
01:03:42,210 --> 01:03:40,060
room with me matter of fact it scared

1324
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:42,220
him so bad he went all over his self

1325
01:03:49,470 --> 01:03:47,410
they was back I'm sure he'd like to I'd

1326
01:03:53,340 --> 01:03:49,480
like to hear that today I'm sure yes

1327
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:53,350
yeah yeah if they had passed away you

1328
01:04:00,210 --> 01:03:55,330
know who I would have never said that

1329
01:04:03,599 --> 01:04:00,220
about it but it's a truth well you know

1330
01:04:06,060 --> 01:04:03,609
I I have to ask you a Calvin yeah you

1331
01:04:09,410 --> 01:04:06,070
and I met I don't remember what year it

1332
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:09,420
was do you think it's about 1990 maybe

1333
01:04:16,020 --> 01:04:12,490
it was probably right in that time right

1334
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:16,030
there because matter of fact the only

1335
01:04:21,180 --> 01:04:19,690
reason I was at that conference the

1336
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:21,190
friend of mine that I was telling you

1337
01:04:26,940 --> 01:04:24,130
Matt that was in will ball went were

1338
01:04:29,460 --> 01:04:26,950
Budd Hopkins he loaded me up and took me

1339
01:04:31,980 --> 01:04:29,470
down there because he he wasn't really

1340
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:31,990
interested in all this and I didn't want

1341
01:04:35,700 --> 01:04:33,970
to talk but you know I figured he was a

1342
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:35,710
pretty smart man and I was good friends

1343
01:04:40,050 --> 01:04:38,410
of mine and he just wanted to go to one

1344
01:04:42,690 --> 01:04:40,060
to see what it was about that was the

1345
01:04:45,510 --> 01:04:42,700
only reason I went there when out

1346
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:45,520
weren't you trying to get involved or

1347
01:04:50,099 --> 01:04:47,650
where I went

1348
01:04:54,540 --> 01:04:50,109
some people trying to get you involved

1349
01:04:58,680 --> 01:04:54,550
in doing a TV series they were and we

1350
01:05:02,670 --> 01:04:58,690
actually cut up cut a few tapes now what

1351
01:05:05,790 --> 01:05:02,680
my involvement was Oh like I say this

1352
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:05,800
friend of mine and I'm not calling his

1353
01:05:10,020 --> 01:05:07,810
name right now because I had heard from

1354
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:10,030
him in a long time but just friend of

1355
01:05:18,810 --> 01:05:14,250
mine he had money and he had all the

1356
01:05:23,030 --> 01:05:18,820
knowledge and someone else had hooked

1357
01:05:25,740 --> 01:05:23,040
him up in a law there that was a

1358
01:05:27,780 --> 01:05:25,750
newscaster on TV and he was telling him

1359
01:05:29,790 --> 01:05:27,790
about he interviewed me right after this

1360
01:05:31,950 --> 01:05:29,800
happened and actually I don't never

1361
01:05:34,290 --> 01:05:31,960
never remembered this guy interviewing

1362
01:05:36,420 --> 01:05:34,300
me but he did and he said I tell you

1363
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:36,430
what would go over good

1364
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:40,960
if we started a young thing about UFOs

1365
01:05:48,089 --> 01:05:44,410
and things like that and investigated

1366
01:05:50,460 --> 01:05:48,099
them and I'll get us on TV and you pay

1367
01:05:52,319 --> 01:05:50,470
for it and we'll it just Calvin do

1368
01:05:55,819 --> 01:05:52,329
whatever he wants to in it so they made

1369
01:05:59,819 --> 01:05:55,829
me executive vice president of UFO

1370
01:06:02,490 --> 01:05:59,829
investigations which didn't really mean

1371
01:06:04,799 --> 01:06:02,500
nothing to me I mean I was there and

1372
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:04,809
this guy paid me a little salary for

1373
01:06:13,410 --> 01:06:08,559
being there because uh you know I wasn't

1374
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:13,420
working right at the time and it lasted

1375
01:06:17,789 --> 01:06:15,970
we cut a few tapes a few talk shows and

1376
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:17,799
invited people and we even had Charlie

1377
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:20,770
on one time yeah you know I remember I

1378
01:06:24,990 --> 01:06:22,569
remember seeing it now I don't know how

1379
01:06:27,450 --> 01:06:25,000
it was broadcaster maybe it was passed

1380
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:27,460
around on on videotape or something but

1381
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:29,200
Tim Schwartz and I were talking about

1382
01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:31,450
that just the other day about how we

1383
01:06:35,279 --> 01:06:32,710
remember seeing it

1384
01:06:38,670 --> 01:06:35,289
what was it broadcast locally down in

1385
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:38,680
the Mississippi now is broadcast out of

1386
01:06:43,890 --> 01:06:41,170
New Orleans and oh it was just the four

1387
01:06:45,630 --> 01:06:43,900
goin national in a matter of fact the

1388
01:06:48,420 --> 01:06:45,640
only reason I got involved with that

1389
01:06:51,750 --> 01:06:48,430
bunch on the deal they wanted to make a

1390
01:06:54,809 --> 01:06:51,760
fishing show and back then fishing shows

1391
01:06:59,039 --> 01:06:54,819
was real popular you know yeah we when I

1392
01:07:01,950 --> 01:06:59,049
started that and then though Jimmy or

1393
01:07:06,180 --> 01:07:01,960
these guys got involved in these UFOs

1394
01:07:08,370 --> 01:07:06,190
you know and psychics so well that's how

1395
01:07:10,950 --> 01:07:08,380
I ended up getting all that but it just

1396
01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:10,960
lost interest I lost interest in it went

1397
01:07:15,150 --> 01:07:12,609
on to something else and I think they

1398
01:07:18,059 --> 01:07:15,160
kept it going for a little while but we

1399
01:07:20,819 --> 01:07:18,069
went and made some real good talk shows

1400
01:07:23,010 --> 01:07:20,829
and they cut it on three-quarter one

1401
01:07:26,039 --> 01:07:23,020
inch tape you know for regular

1402
01:07:30,210 --> 01:07:26,049
commercial TVs you know it went over

1403
01:07:33,900 --> 01:07:30,220
good hit him so for a little while and

1404
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:33,910
they had it all syndicated but I was at

1405
01:07:37,859 --> 01:07:36,130
that time I was gonna get into that for

1406
01:07:39,779 --> 01:07:37,869
a little bit and I just got tired and

1407
01:07:42,539 --> 01:07:39,789
the reason why I wanted to hear

1408
01:07:46,410 --> 01:07:42,549
everybody else's story I was looking for

1409
01:07:48,690 --> 01:07:46,420
information in oh because I was still

1410
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:48,700
having a hard time myself believing what

1411
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:49,930
had happened to me

1412
01:07:53,700 --> 01:07:51,730
I was trying to throw it off on

1413
01:07:56,460 --> 01:07:53,710
everything else and they said no you

1414
01:08:00,900 --> 01:07:56,470
know this happened and I really felt

1415
01:08:01,789 --> 01:08:00,910
like myself I felt like if it was a UFO

1416
01:08:07,289 --> 01:08:01,799
was something's probably

1417
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:07,299
interdimensional mm-hmm but here now do

1418
01:08:13,859 --> 01:08:10,480
you remember I vaguely remember you you

1419
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:13,869
said saying it you're doing your lecture

1420
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:17,730
that the this space of a woman or this

1421
01:08:23,510 --> 01:08:20,080
individual told you that they were

1422
01:08:26,910 --> 01:08:23,520
responsible for bringing aids to earth

1423
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:26,920
now I don't think I ever said that but

1424
01:08:33,149 --> 01:08:30,370
uh you know I've always said that that

1425
01:08:38,430 --> 01:08:33,159
was more like demons and kind of afraid

1426
01:08:40,019 --> 01:08:38,440
you know instead of instead of from

1427
01:08:42,209 --> 01:08:40,029
other planets or something I always

1428
01:08:44,519 --> 01:08:42,219
thought they were kind of like a demon

1429
01:08:47,490 --> 01:08:44,529
you know you know you hear demons being

1430
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:47,500
spoke of in the Bible and stuff now your

1431
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:49,449
mind I was just trying to place them

1432
01:08:53,820 --> 01:08:51,370
where they was from and what they was

1433
01:08:57,809 --> 01:08:53,830
doing here and while they was a mess and

1434
01:09:03,390 --> 01:08:57,819
will mean well now what do you think

1435
01:09:07,260 --> 01:09:03,400
though that now Charlie when he went

1436
01:09:09,510 --> 01:09:07,270
public he seemed to have a more well

1437
01:09:12,780 --> 01:09:09,520
would you call a spiritual approach to

1438
01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:12,790
the experience in fact he kind of

1439
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:16,960
insinuated that he was the chosen that

1440
01:09:22,289 --> 01:09:19,690
that he was respondent and I don't

1441
01:09:25,410 --> 01:09:22,299
remember Tim do you remember what his

1442
01:09:28,050 --> 01:09:25,420
message was I think he had Deb oh maybe

1443
01:09:31,860 --> 01:09:28,060
some prophecies or things that he said

1444
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:31,870
we're going to to transpire no I can't I

1445
01:09:37,019 --> 01:09:33,520
can't remember what the what the details

1446
01:09:39,930 --> 01:09:37,029
were on that too but yeah I remember

1447
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:39,940
that aspect but I guess yeah what the

1448
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:46,210
details were I don't remember you know

1449
01:09:50,970 --> 01:09:48,730
for myself as far as Charlie I never

1450
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:50,980
really sat down until we had him one

1451
01:09:55,860 --> 01:09:53,250
time on a show and talk to him and know

1452
01:09:57,780 --> 01:09:55,870
you know even though I was with him

1453
01:10:01,290 --> 01:09:57,790
these things in my mind that I doubted

1454
01:10:03,810 --> 01:10:01,300
about it too and that's just me though

1455
01:10:05,850 --> 01:10:03,820
I'm one of these type people show me

1456
01:10:09,300 --> 01:10:05,860
and I believe it unless she showed me I

1457
01:10:11,310 --> 01:10:09,310
don't believe nothing you say and that's

1458
01:10:15,270 --> 01:10:11,320
just where I was at that point in time

1459
01:10:18,959 --> 01:10:15,280
in my life but I know it was abducted

1460
01:10:21,569 --> 01:10:18,969
because I was there waiting or I didn't

1461
01:10:25,950 --> 01:10:21,579
seem in a shield but I you know he was

1462
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:25,960
there we was together now once you had

1463
01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:27,760
this experience together

1464
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:31,840
did you fall apart as friends or see

1465
01:10:42,330 --> 01:10:37,210
less of each other we did how I worked

1466
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:42,340
one day at that shipyard the next day we

1467
01:10:48,089 --> 01:10:45,250
spent a case were in the hospital then

1468
01:10:51,839 --> 01:10:48,099
the next day dr. Hynek and the harder'

1469
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:51,849
came down and then after all that I left

1470
01:10:56,669 --> 01:10:54,250
and I didn't want to see Charlie no more

1471
01:10:58,890 --> 01:10:56,679
you know I could care less and we bumped

1472
01:11:01,290 --> 01:10:58,900
into each other at places you know

1473
01:11:03,180 --> 01:11:01,300
sometime he would come home the

1474
01:11:05,839 --> 01:11:03,190
Sandersville and all not here he was

1475
01:11:07,830 --> 01:11:05,849
there but as far as talking or

1476
01:11:10,100 --> 01:11:07,840
communicating of each other that was

1477
01:11:11,220 --> 01:11:10,110
pretty much the end of our relationship

1478
01:11:14,339 --> 01:11:11,230
hmm

1479
01:11:16,260 --> 01:11:14,349
all right Tim will you need to go to our

1480
01:11:19,620 --> 01:11:16,270
bottom of the outlet break so that we

1481
01:11:27,820 --> 01:11:19,630
come back we have Warren exploring the

1482
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:32,000
now back to exploring the bazaars with

1483
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:34,560
two of the most electrifying researchers

1484
01:11:42,530 --> 01:11:37,890
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca

1485
01:11:44,660 --> 01:11:42,540
Lee panting sports all right welcome

1486
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:44,670
back to exploring the bazaar in Tim here

1487
01:11:52,990 --> 01:11:47,850
we are the final segment of program yeah

1488
01:11:55,820 --> 01:11:53,000
it just seems like we just get started

1489
01:11:57,620 --> 01:11:55,830
the only reason that I'm so electrifying

1490
01:12:02,570 --> 01:11:57,630
because I said here with one finger in

1491
01:12:05,540 --> 01:12:02,580
this electric socket that's that makes

1492
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:05,550
me electrifying other than that these

1493
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:07,650
things are not quite as electrifying as

1494
01:12:12,380 --> 01:12:10,650
I yeah as I used to be in fact I feel

1495
01:12:14,210 --> 01:12:12,390
some days like I've been hit by a bolt

1496
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:14,220
of lightning or something and we're

1497
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:15,570
gonna start calling we're gonna start

1498
01:12:29,210 --> 01:12:19,440
calling you crankenstein well that's

1499
01:12:32,330 --> 01:12:29,220
okay we were just reminiscing during the

1500
01:12:35,050 --> 01:12:32,340
break at Jerry and I about how we've

1501
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:35,060
known each other since probably about

1502
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:39,120
1964 65 I would guess right we all you

1503
01:12:45,830 --> 01:12:40,890
have to read the high school so it would

1504
01:12:49,130 --> 01:12:45,840
have been probably 64 maybe 63 yeah we

1505
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:49,140
we used to read we used to read Ray

1506
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:52,650
Palmer's flying saucers magazine that

1507
01:12:59,570 --> 01:12:55,890
was yeah we all did I think that was the

1508
01:13:01,610 --> 01:12:59,580
only publication that I can think of of

1509
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:01,620
course there are no publications anymore

1510
01:13:07,370 --> 01:13:04,890
today the last in the last printed

1511
01:13:09,590 --> 01:13:07,380
magazine in the English language is not

1512
01:13:13,070 --> 01:13:09,600
including 14 times because that's not

1513
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:13,080
really all UFOs just folded and that was

1514
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:17,090
the ufology magazine published out of

1515
01:13:22,460 --> 01:13:19,890
Australia that was the as far as I know

1516
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:22,470
the last of the print magazines in

1517
01:13:30,950 --> 01:13:26,970
English and that and they kept it going

1518
01:13:32,270 --> 01:13:30,960
for about 25 years and that was a pretty

1519
01:13:34,130 --> 01:13:32,280
good magazine of course it was my

1520
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:34,140
articles and Scott Perales and Tim

1521
01:13:38,660 --> 01:13:35,370
Schwartz and

1522
01:13:40,850 --> 01:13:38,670
a bill Chalker got in there once in a

1523
01:13:45,470 --> 01:13:40,860
while they they had a pretty big

1524
01:13:47,420 --> 01:13:45,480
international you know a flavor and then

1525
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:47,430
that just all of a sudden boom they

1526
01:13:51,700 --> 01:13:48,810
weren't there anymore

1527
01:13:55,430 --> 01:13:51,710
of course there are the or there are the

1528
01:13:58,580 --> 01:13:55,440
internet publications the e magazines

1529
01:14:02,320 --> 01:13:58,590
most of which seem to come out of the UK

1530
01:14:05,300 --> 01:14:02,330
you've got phenomenon magazine you got

1531
01:14:07,490 --> 01:14:05,310
underground can't remember the name

1532
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:07,500
they're going to kill me you've got

1533
01:14:13,580 --> 01:14:09,810
quite a few you know that are really

1534
01:14:15,500 --> 01:14:13,590
spectacular jobs but they're not in

1535
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:15,510
print if I see an article and I want to

1536
01:14:20,780 --> 01:14:17,490
read it I print it out Jerry I can't

1537
01:14:23,180 --> 01:14:20,790
read it honestly no no it's my if the

1538
01:14:27,860 --> 01:14:23,190
articles of any length it's much easier

1539
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:27,870
to read it on a piece of paper yeah I

1540
01:14:33,470 --> 01:14:31,290
don't know I now my Kindle I've got a

1541
01:14:35,480 --> 01:14:33,480
big 10 inch screen Kindle that's not too

1542
01:14:38,210 --> 01:14:35,490
bad because you tend maneuver the type

1543
01:14:39,440 --> 01:14:38,220
you know up and up and down and do you

1544
01:14:41,150 --> 01:14:39,450
think there are some people out there

1545
01:14:46,460 --> 01:14:41,160
Jerry that have never read an actual

1546
01:14:49,370 --> 01:14:46,470
book probably I was on an airplane last

1547
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:49,380
year and I realized and there were a

1548
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:52,050
bunch of people reading on the plane and

1549
01:14:56,900 --> 01:14:54,330
I realized that I was the only one who

1550
01:15:02,810 --> 01:14:56,910
was holding an actual book in his hand

1551
01:15:07,370 --> 01:15:02,820
ah well there yeah I think well yeah I

1552
01:15:10,130 --> 01:15:07,380
can't quite get into it but it is it is

1553
01:15:13,130 --> 01:15:10,140
what it is and just think long after

1554
01:15:15,890 --> 01:15:13,140
we're gone let's say another 30 years

1555
01:15:18,410 --> 01:15:15,900
from now what the heck will it be then

1556
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:18,420
because you know it's going to change I

1557
01:15:24,050 --> 01:15:21,570
mean that's the whole idea of technology

1558
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:24,060
but also to a business somebody else is

1559
01:15:30,650 --> 01:15:27,050
going to come along and try to you know

1560
01:15:32,690 --> 01:15:30,660
do the next guy one up and and so they

1561
01:15:34,970 --> 01:15:32,700
come up with some other form and I guess

1562
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:34,980
eventually it'll be you know the

1563
01:15:40,910 --> 01:15:38,610
Holograms in your living room and then

1564
01:15:44,990 --> 01:15:40,920
I'm glad that I won't be around to have

1565
01:15:48,260 --> 01:15:45,000
to deal with that yeah from so we won't

1566
01:15:49,189 --> 01:15:48,270
know what's real or not well maybe the

1567
01:15:51,500 --> 01:15:49,199
aliens have this

1568
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:51,510
technology maybe this is all of course

1569
01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:54,090
Richard shaver said this in the 1940s

1570
01:16:01,160 --> 01:15:57,360
that you know it was all holograms and

1571
01:16:03,229 --> 01:16:01,170
illusions to take our mind the way our

1572
01:16:05,899 --> 01:16:03,239
thoughts away from what really was

1573
01:16:07,910 --> 01:16:05,909
happening which was not necessarily the

1574
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:07,920
objects in the sky it could have been

1575
01:16:13,790 --> 01:16:10,530
something you know going on on the on

1576
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:13,800
the ground so I don't know I mean we're

1577
01:16:18,919 --> 01:16:17,449
jury where would you like to see this go

1578
01:16:22,459 --> 01:16:18,929
what gold

1579
01:16:26,750 --> 01:16:22,469
ufology yeah ufology yeah well what what

1580
01:16:29,180 --> 01:16:26,760
direction should we head I well I can

1581
01:16:31,129 --> 01:16:29,190
tell you that my direction is gone too I

1582
01:16:33,500 --> 01:16:31,139
don't even consider myself the ethology

1583
01:16:36,890 --> 01:16:33,510
anymore I think of myself as an

1584
01:16:43,009 --> 01:16:36,900
anomalous which is a fancy word for 40

1585
01:16:44,839 --> 01:16:43,019
in I really yes yeah yeah that I don't

1586
01:16:48,739 --> 01:16:44,849
really the people that I'm most

1587
01:16:51,319 --> 01:16:48,749
connected with I really kind of see the

1588
01:16:54,739 --> 01:16:51,329
UFO phenomenon it's just part of a much

1589
01:16:57,649 --> 01:16:54,749
larger tapestry of things that are all

1590
01:17:00,350 --> 01:16:57,659
related in some way that we just don't

1591
01:17:02,569 --> 01:17:00,360
understand but I mean I have ideas that

1592
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:02,579
I this isn't the forum to go into them

1593
01:17:08,750 --> 01:17:06,449
because this is Calvin show but that's

1594
01:17:13,580 --> 01:17:08,760
generally how I have a broad outlook on

1595
01:17:15,259 --> 01:17:13,590
these things well okay we wanted we have

1596
01:17:18,290 --> 01:17:15,269
a few minutes left and we'll get back to

1597
01:17:20,959 --> 01:17:18,300
Calvin but what would you say Jerry are

1598
01:17:24,259 --> 01:17:20,969
your top three in cases I mean that you

1599
01:17:27,549 --> 01:17:24,269
believe are really our evidential that

1600
01:17:31,129 --> 01:17:27,559
proves that this is a you know all worth

1601
01:17:33,739 --> 01:17:31,139
investigating well I think that in terms

1602
01:17:37,339 --> 01:17:33,749
of the core phenomenon you know the

1603
01:17:39,350 --> 01:17:37,349
phenomenon that we attracted to us when

1604
01:17:42,319 --> 01:17:39,360
we were young and in the cases that

1605
01:17:45,049 --> 01:17:42,329
dominated the literature mass cases like

1606
01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:45,059
you know they're some of these airline

1607
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:47,760
sightings and radar visual cases and

1608
01:17:55,459 --> 01:17:51,650
some of the SI toos the the well

1609
01:17:58,969 --> 01:17:55,469
investigated drone ground trace cases

1610
01:18:02,700 --> 01:17:58,979
are really quite evidential and they

1611
01:18:04,290 --> 01:18:02,710
really do speak to some kind of

1612
01:18:06,330 --> 01:18:04,300
technology and in fact in the new

1613
01:18:08,209 --> 01:18:06,340
edition of the encyclopedia which comes

1614
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:08,219
out next week

1615
01:18:13,860 --> 01:18:11,650
Brad sparks an aerospace engineer in

1616
01:18:15,150 --> 01:18:13,870
Southern California is extremely

1617
01:18:17,130 --> 01:18:15,160
knowledgeable he's been studying

1618
01:18:19,709 --> 01:18:17,140
beautiful phenomenon all his life he's

1619
01:18:23,490 --> 01:18:19,719
very smart guy writes about these

1620
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:23,500
technical cases and in the argues that

1621
01:18:31,050 --> 01:18:26,290
they are really strong and they're not

1622
01:18:33,030 --> 01:18:31,060
debunk able and and one day when science

1623
01:18:35,610 --> 01:18:33,040
decides it is not good to ignore this

1624
01:18:37,890 --> 01:18:35,620
subject and look at it seriously that's

1625
01:18:40,979 --> 01:18:37,900
where it will start and that may be a

1626
01:18:43,470 --> 01:18:40,989
whole category of its own that has

1627
01:18:45,900 --> 01:18:43,480
nothing to do with men in black and all

1628
01:18:48,330 --> 01:18:45,910
these other kinds of you know weirdness

1629
01:18:53,340 --> 01:18:48,340
it's gotten associated that that's the

1630
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:53,350
only similarity between being the core

1631
01:18:59,370 --> 01:18:55,930
phenomenon the event Mahna Mahna and the

1632
01:19:01,140 --> 01:18:59,380
experience phenomenon is that the first

1633
01:19:04,229 --> 01:19:01,150
is really what it appears to be

1634
01:19:06,390 --> 01:19:04,239
somebody's alien technology and the

1635
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:06,400
other the experience phenomenon is

1636
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:08,050
something that's just taken on this

1637
01:19:12,660 --> 01:19:11,170
Toleration in our time that in another

1638
01:19:15,690 --> 01:19:12,670
time it would have taken on another

1639
01:19:16,830 --> 01:19:15,700
coloration you know for example you know

1640
01:19:18,959 --> 01:19:16,840
there was a long there's been a

1641
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:18,969
long-standing tradition of encounters

1642
01:19:24,570 --> 01:19:22,090
with you know fairy folk oh yeah and you

1643
01:19:26,490 --> 01:19:24,580
study these encounters and they don't

1644
01:19:29,490 --> 01:19:26,500
convince you that there's a very real

1645
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:29,500
but you do become convinced if you're it

1646
01:19:35,340 --> 01:19:31,810
all open mind about that it is entirely

1647
01:19:37,950 --> 01:19:35,350
possible to have these experiences which

1648
01:19:40,050 --> 01:19:37,960
are you know vivid and memorable and

1649
01:19:42,270 --> 01:19:40,060
people have encounters with monsters and

1650
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:42,280
other kinds of extraordinary creatures

1651
01:19:49,170 --> 01:19:45,130
and these experiences probably are not

1652
01:19:51,570 --> 01:19:49,180
taking place and consensus reality but

1653
01:19:53,700 --> 01:19:51,580
they're happening on experiential level

1654
01:19:57,030 --> 01:19:53,710
and they're very real and highly

1655
01:19:59,430 --> 01:19:57,040
anomalous and so I think that like you

1656
01:20:02,100 --> 01:19:59,440
know arguably abductions to at least

1657
01:20:05,250 --> 01:20:02,110
some of them many of them most of them

1658
01:20:07,940 --> 01:20:05,260
are part of this experience phenomenon

1659
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:07,950
that is you know just attached to us

1660
01:20:13,770 --> 01:20:11,890
attached to the UFO phenomenon enough of

1661
01:20:15,930 --> 01:20:13,780
the close encounter of the second kind

1662
01:20:16,890 --> 01:20:15,940
of radar visual just taking on that

1663
01:20:18,870 --> 01:20:16,900
color

1664
01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:18,880
but it's not the same thing it's

1665
01:20:23,729 --> 01:20:21,520
fundamentally different it has only a

1666
01:20:25,410 --> 01:20:23,739
superficial resemblance this is the

1667
01:20:28,500 --> 01:20:25,420
conclusion that I have come to it

1668
01:20:32,339 --> 01:20:28,510
written about it well that's going to be

1669
01:20:35,339 --> 01:20:32,349
pretty hard to proof I mean like the

1670
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:35,349
paranormal aspect of any of this because

1671
01:20:41,879 --> 01:20:38,290
it's kind of like they're not provable

1672
01:20:44,879 --> 01:20:41,889
it's provable yeah happen it happens in

1673
01:20:48,870 --> 01:20:44,889
experience but it doesn't happen

1674
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:48,880
in the kind of material reality that the

1675
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:51,010
core UFO phenomenon seems to be

1676
01:20:57,390 --> 01:20:53,770
occurring it in other words in a core

1677
01:20:59,760 --> 01:20:57,400
event you can track it on radar you can

1678
01:21:02,550 --> 01:20:59,770
study the traces of leaves on the ground

1679
01:21:06,270 --> 01:21:02,560
and find really very strange content in

1680
01:21:10,020 --> 01:21:06,280
the soil but the other kinds of

1681
01:21:13,050 --> 01:21:10,030
experiences feel just as real but

1682
01:21:16,319 --> 01:21:13,060
they're really not happening within the

1683
01:21:19,370 --> 01:21:16,329
reality that we commonly refer to is you

1684
01:21:23,300 --> 01:21:19,380
know the consensus reality level reality

1685
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:23,310
well you know I just saw today I

1686
01:21:30,030 --> 01:21:25,810
purchased a copy of the hunt for the

1687
01:21:35,970 --> 01:21:30,040
skinwalker which is a two hour and a 15

1688
01:21:39,899 --> 01:21:35,980
minute video production with Elena's

1689
01:21:42,660 --> 01:21:39,909
Gary Carell and George Knapp and of

1690
01:21:46,580 --> 01:21:42,670
course there you've got the whole litany

1691
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:46,590
of UFO and paranormal phenomena from

1692
01:21:56,430 --> 01:21:52,210
lights in the sky and crypto 8 creatures

1693
01:22:00,240 --> 01:21:56,440
and a holes being dug and the sound of

1694
01:22:05,459 --> 01:22:00,250
machinery coming from underground very

1695
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:05,469
very bizarre and very strange but I have

1696
01:22:10,140 --> 01:22:07,449
Jerry one last the question here to

1697
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:10,150
throw at you regarding Pascagoula Philip

1698
01:22:16,260 --> 01:22:12,639
mantle the publisher of Calvin's book

1699
01:22:18,660 --> 01:22:16,270
has asked me I guess and a lot of other

1700
01:22:23,580 --> 01:22:18,670
people on Facebook what happened to dr.

1701
01:22:27,540 --> 01:22:23,590
Hynek files on the subject well they're

1702
01:22:29,510 --> 01:22:27,550
still there there I mean the the office

1703
01:22:32,510 --> 01:22:29,520
for the center fee of all sizes

1704
01:22:35,690 --> 01:22:32,520
down some years ago but the material it

1705
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:35,700
was in there which was extremely helpful

1706
01:22:40,730 --> 01:22:37,890
to me in writing the uf1 cyclopædia

1707
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:40,740
series by the way still there it's in a

1708
01:22:45,410 --> 01:22:42,570
private residence a woman who's

1709
01:22:48,980 --> 01:22:45,420
associated with the center who lives in

1710
01:22:52,490 --> 01:22:48,990
a suburb in North Side Chicago the

1711
01:22:56,450 --> 01:22:52,500
Northside suburb of Chicago all that

1712
01:22:59,060 --> 01:22:56,460
stuff is there and one that wasn't what

1713
01:23:05,920 --> 01:22:59,070
wasn't some of the material they'll put

1714
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:05,930
in storage somewhere in Tucson no I

1715
01:23:14,990 --> 01:23:08,250
understand the source of the question

1716
01:23:21,460 --> 01:23:15,000
but no Charles our state it was the a

1717
01:23:26,570 --> 01:23:21,470
profiles that were disappeared in Tucson

1718
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:26,580
in a private ownership inaccessible as I

1719
01:23:32,690 --> 01:23:29,610
understand I'm putting it kindly yeah

1720
01:23:34,670 --> 01:23:32,700
yes okay well I I have had a weird

1721
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:34,680
experience with a pro which I described

1722
01:23:38,630 --> 01:23:36,330
as synchronicity with the license plate

1723
01:23:40,940 --> 01:23:38,640
no bit but I won't go into that tonight

1724
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:40,950
but Calvin getting it getting back to

1725
01:23:48,110 --> 01:23:45,570
your experience in your story if you had

1726
01:23:49,420 --> 01:23:48,120
to do it all over again wait not that

1727
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:49,430
you were in control of the situation

1728
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:53,010
would you have rather that the aliens or

1729
01:23:58,580 --> 01:23:56,610
whoever was piloting the the craft had

1730
01:24:03,640 --> 01:23:58,590
flown over your head and picked up the

1731
01:24:06,710 --> 01:24:03,650
next guy fishing on the pier or are you

1732
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:06,720
happy well maybe happy isn't the best

1733
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:09,930
word but you know lucky that you were

1734
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:11,610
chosen I mean it is an earth-shaking

1735
01:24:17,510 --> 01:24:14,250
experience but it's one that few other

1736
01:24:19,010 --> 01:24:17,520
people have I would hate to see anyone

1737
01:24:25,130 --> 01:24:19,020
have to go through what I've been

1738
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:25,140
through of all this I don't know chosen

1739
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:28,260
would be the right word or not at times

1740
01:24:34,370 --> 01:24:32,250
it was torture and that's my outlook on

1741
01:24:37,370 --> 01:24:34,380
things then times just been pretty good

1742
01:24:41,180 --> 01:24:37,380
here lately hadn't been so bad since

1743
01:24:43,330 --> 01:24:41,190
I've written a book and the reason I

1744
01:24:46,250 --> 01:24:43,340
wanted to write this book

1745
01:24:48,589 --> 01:24:46,260
everybody has an expiration date on her

1746
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:48,599
head and minds getting a little closer

1747
01:24:54,790 --> 01:24:51,330
than most anybody hmm yeah you and me

1748
01:24:57,830 --> 01:24:54,800
both yeah yeah and if you think about it

1749
01:25:00,290 --> 01:24:57,840
everybody's kind of dying out and I

1750
01:25:02,540 --> 01:25:00,300
wanted to document this you know

1751
01:25:06,140 --> 01:25:02,550
philipson want to talk me into really

1752
01:25:09,500 --> 01:25:06,150
doing it oh yeah your legacy where it

1753
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:09,510
won't change and that's what I wanted to

1754
01:25:15,410 --> 01:25:11,610
do cuz I've never told my story you know

1755
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:15,420
I've never I tell reporters anything

1756
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:17,010
they want to hear it didn't matter to me

1757
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:18,690
because I didn't like reporters

1758
01:25:24,919 --> 01:25:22,560
and just here lately I'm getting where I

1759
01:25:26,930 --> 01:25:24,929
feel a little better about them because

1760
01:25:28,879 --> 01:25:26,940
they make a little more sense of what

1761
01:25:30,470 --> 01:25:28,889
they used to back then used to they

1762
01:25:32,629 --> 01:25:30,480
thought they had a they like a

1763
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:32,639
weatherman you know you see a weatherman

1764
01:25:37,220 --> 01:25:35,130
go out go sit through a hurricane he's

1765
01:25:39,140 --> 01:25:37,230
gonna find I rough his place he can find

1766
01:25:39,589 --> 01:25:39,150
will the rain gutter pouring down on his

1767
01:25:44,030 --> 01:25:39,599
head

1768
01:25:45,950 --> 01:25:44,040
and get out there a night like that's

1769
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:45,960
for sure I've see I've seen that on the

1770
01:25:50,270 --> 01:25:48,090
on the TV they'll find a place that's

1771
01:25:52,250 --> 01:25:50,280
like a a wind tunnel so it looks like

1772
01:25:54,500 --> 01:25:52,260
they're being not you know bowled over

1773
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:54,510
by the storm or something course now

1774
01:25:57,680 --> 01:25:56,130
with the storm out there today I don't

1775
01:26:02,030 --> 01:25:57,690
know if they're necessarily gonna have

1776
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:02,040
to do that is there anything that you

1777
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:05,010
would have changed or anything that you

1778
01:26:13,430 --> 01:26:07,770
didn't reveal that you would like to

1779
01:26:16,270 --> 01:26:13,440
reveal uh not right now it's kinda like

1780
01:26:19,250 --> 01:26:16,280
I say I got the bull kiss after Oh

1781
01:26:22,220 --> 01:26:19,260
actually if I had my choice I never

1782
01:26:25,220 --> 01:26:22,230
would have roped a bull you know but now

1783
01:26:27,290 --> 01:26:25,230
that I'm into it it's good speaking

1784
01:26:32,419 --> 01:26:27,300
about it and being able to talk about it

1785
01:26:34,490 --> 01:26:32,429
and I hope to open up more people that's

1786
01:26:38,500 --> 01:26:34,500
had some kind of experience where it's

1787
01:26:43,129 --> 01:26:38,510
been a UFO reduction or maybe you

1788
01:26:45,589 --> 01:26:43,139
paranormal some yeah you know to talk

1789
01:26:49,129 --> 01:26:45,599
about things and not just keep it under

1790
01:26:51,140 --> 01:26:49,139
her hat like I did for years I didn't

1791
01:26:54,470 --> 01:26:51,150
want nobody didn't know I'd seen one

1792
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:54,480
well you didn't have a choice as much

1793
01:26:58,190 --> 01:26:56,370
medias attention now

1794
01:27:01,940 --> 01:26:58,200
they thought the media would calm down

1795
01:27:03,860 --> 01:27:01,950
over this after 45 years but they just

1796
01:27:06,730 --> 01:27:03,870
they worse now than what they were then

1797
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:06,740
but that's because of the book I guess

1798
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:07,920
mm-hmm

1799
01:27:17,570 --> 01:27:12,930
so has anybody come forward over the

1800
01:27:19,220 --> 01:27:17,580
years to a claim that they were involved

1801
01:27:22,130 --> 01:27:19,230
in this I mean maybe had a sighting the

1802
01:27:27,350 --> 01:27:22,140
same night or I can validate the same

1803
01:27:30,620 --> 01:27:27,360
type of experience while they have it

1804
01:27:33,860 --> 01:27:30,630
had been too long ago that I was I

1805
01:27:37,460 --> 01:27:33,870
forget her name come fold got a hold of

1806
01:27:41,630 --> 01:27:37,470
Philip and actually laid some

1807
01:27:44,090 --> 01:27:41,640
documentation out and he had translated

1808
01:27:47,710 --> 01:27:44,100
into English because they was from I

1809
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:47,720
forget where they was from but anyhow he

1810
01:27:53,390 --> 01:27:50,610
translated it into English and put it up

1811
01:27:56,210 --> 01:27:53,400
and they had actually come down to see

1812
01:27:58,940 --> 01:27:56,220
Charlie you know I was gone they said

1813
01:28:04,420 --> 01:27:58,950
they'd seen me but I wasn't at that time

1814
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:04,430
I was in Laurel Mississippi hiding but

1815
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:09,570
they all actually had documented this

1816
01:28:14,780 --> 01:28:12,570
case and it's been a lot of people come

1817
01:28:18,010 --> 01:28:14,790
forward believable people and then

1818
01:28:21,230 --> 01:28:18,020
agents and nuts to come forward on it I

1819
01:28:24,290 --> 01:28:21,240
bet you Tim you have a couple questions

1820
01:28:27,110 --> 01:28:24,300
there evidence well yeah one of the

1821
01:28:28,250 --> 01:28:27,120
things that that the Calvin you said

1822
01:28:32,180 --> 01:28:28,260
earlier and I found this interesting

1823
01:28:33,860 --> 01:28:32,190
because you know that naturally there's

1824
01:28:35,030 --> 01:28:33,870
a little bit a lot of people says oh you

1825
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:35,040
know these guys sisters you know this

1826
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:36,690
Manor all have it as a hoax just to try

1827
01:28:43,460 --> 01:28:39,570
to make you know money however you had

1828
01:28:46,460 --> 01:28:43,470
said that before this incident you had

1829
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:46,470
never even heard of UFOs no sir

1830
01:28:52,420 --> 01:28:49,970
I didn't have any clue I'm out of

1831
01:28:57,610 --> 01:28:52,430
suspected ghosts or something like that

1832
01:29:00,800 --> 01:28:57,620
but oh no UFOs I did when they said a

1833
01:29:03,500 --> 01:29:00,810
UFO inducted somebody you know I did

1834
01:29:06,230 --> 01:29:03,510
I never heard until after this happened

1835
01:29:08,930 --> 01:29:06,240
I never heard of the bonny Barney and

1836
01:29:10,129 --> 01:29:08,940
Betty hill case or the Travis walk well

1837
01:29:14,659 --> 01:29:10,139
sir I think Travis

1838
01:29:17,299 --> 01:29:14,669
was after hours or going back to Roswell

1839
01:29:21,020 --> 01:29:17,309
and all but after that you know I've

1840
01:29:24,139 --> 01:29:21,030
been around like Jesse Marcel Colonel

1841
01:29:26,899 --> 01:29:24,149
Jesse Marcel on his deathbed he sent a

1842
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:26,909
lady over to get me to come talk to him

1843
01:29:32,509 --> 01:29:30,090
and I sat down and talked to the man

1844
01:29:35,899 --> 01:29:32,519
probably 45 minutes to read give out and

1845
01:29:38,029 --> 01:29:35,909
then I left but he swears everything was

1846
01:29:40,850 --> 01:29:38,039
true and you know a man's deathbed he's

1847
01:29:43,639 --> 01:29:40,860
not gonna lie to you like Betty and

1848
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:43,649
Barney Hill last thing they want to do

1849
01:29:47,779 --> 01:29:46,050
is draw attention to herself a white

1850
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:47,789
woman married to a black man in the

1851
01:29:56,770 --> 01:29:50,610
sixties that was unheard of last thing

1852
01:30:00,799 --> 01:29:56,780
more boys attention oh yeah and so after

1853
01:30:04,009 --> 01:30:00,809
after this you have you have you ever

1854
01:30:07,549 --> 01:30:04,019
had any other experiences or you know

1855
01:30:10,009 --> 01:30:07,559
seen anything else you know in the sky

1856
01:30:11,810 --> 01:30:10,019
I would imagine though that I mean you

1857
01:30:13,729 --> 01:30:11,820
know considering what's your initial

1858
01:30:15,620 --> 01:30:13,739
reaction to your experience and if you

1859
01:30:20,359 --> 01:30:15,630
didn't see something this guy's like I'm

1860
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:20,369
just gonna go and go inside now well I

1861
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:23,130
still do a lot of fishing and I do alot

1862
01:30:28,100 --> 01:30:26,130
of fishing at night and the reason that

1863
01:30:31,969 --> 01:30:28,110
I fish at night you know a lot being I

1864
01:30:34,069 --> 01:30:31,979
talk to myself and you look up in the

1865
01:30:37,580 --> 01:30:34,079
sky and you see some it could be a

1866
01:30:39,830 --> 01:30:37,590
shooting star some one one morning my

1867
01:30:43,279 --> 01:30:39,840
wife and I was fishing and I was

1868
01:30:45,979 --> 01:30:43,289
stretched out on the boat taking a nap

1869
01:30:48,319 --> 01:30:45,989
we got a pontoon boat and I was looking

1870
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:48,329
up there was a big silver thing just

1871
01:30:53,509 --> 01:30:50,610
come over but it just so happened to be

1872
01:30:54,169 --> 01:30:53,519
the Goodyear blimp so but that was kind

1873
01:30:58,639 --> 01:30:54,179
of scary

1874
01:31:01,339 --> 01:30:58,649
I bet well I had and your wife I know

1875
01:31:04,189 --> 01:31:01,349
that you've said that the the support of

1876
01:31:08,239 --> 01:31:04,199
your wife has been really a crucial

1877
01:31:10,399 --> 01:31:08,249
through all this yeah and you know her

1878
01:31:13,129 --> 01:31:10,409
and I never have talked about this up

1879
01:31:15,919 --> 01:31:13,139
until lately and the reason we talked

1880
01:31:18,620 --> 01:31:15,929
about it she got to want me to do a book

1881
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:18,630
to put it all in there but we had went

1882
01:31:23,750 --> 01:31:21,570
to awake that a friend of ours and a

1883
01:31:26,660 --> 01:31:23,760
neighbor had passed away

1884
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:26,670
and I have signed a register now you'd

1885
01:31:32,300 --> 01:31:29,610
figure after 40 40 something years that

1886
01:31:35,150 --> 01:31:32,310
uh people wouldn't remember you but

1887
01:31:37,610 --> 01:31:35,160
people recognize my name and where we

1888
01:31:39,650 --> 01:31:37,620
was from down here on the coast and they

1889
01:31:42,710 --> 01:31:39,660
come over started asking me questions

1890
01:31:44,750 --> 01:31:42,720
about it no and I just got um left the

1891
01:31:46,430 --> 01:31:44,760
way cuz I didn't want to take away from

1892
01:31:48,130 --> 01:31:46,440
the family you know and that was no

1893
01:31:51,260 --> 01:31:48,140
place for none of this

1894
01:31:54,710 --> 01:31:51,270
mmm so on the way home she said maybe

1895
01:31:57,290 --> 01:31:54,720
you're to write a book I said okay I

1896
01:32:00,290 --> 01:31:57,300
said you know I don't have much

1897
01:32:02,690 --> 01:32:00,300
education I don't I don't you know

1898
01:32:07,490 --> 01:32:02,700
English so my worst subject in

1899
01:32:11,210 --> 01:32:07,500
literature so uh but I got home and a

1900
01:32:13,729 --> 01:32:11,220
day or two later Phillip Mandel with a

1901
01:32:16,610 --> 01:32:13,739
flying disc had called and just wanted

1902
01:32:19,850 --> 01:32:16,620
to talk to me and he mention well Calvin

1903
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:19,860
why don't you do a book you documented

1904
01:32:24,110 --> 01:32:22,170
and you write it down like you want it

1905
01:32:26,660 --> 01:32:24,120
and people can't change it it's in there

1906
01:32:29,330 --> 01:32:26,670
is documented and that made a lot of

1907
01:32:32,630 --> 01:32:29,340
sense to me so that's why I decided to

1908
01:32:35,210 --> 01:32:32,640
do a bull it wasn't for me because I'm

1909
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:35,220
retired and got my living maiden was

1910
01:32:38,780 --> 01:32:37,050
fishing four or five days a week

1911
01:32:43,130 --> 01:32:38,790
and I hadn't been fishing since his

1912
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:43,140
books come out and well well you know

1913
01:32:48,530 --> 01:32:46,770
I've semi-retired myself I'm 71 but I

1914
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:48,540
still published three books a month and

1915
01:32:54,190 --> 01:32:52,050
of course our most recent one that just

1916
01:32:57,140 --> 01:32:54,200
came out a couple of days ago is called

1917
01:32:58,820 --> 01:32:57,150
screwed by the aliens it's about people

1918
01:33:02,750 --> 01:32:58,830
who have a claim that they've had actual

1919
01:33:05,020 --> 01:33:02,760
sexual encounters with ETS very strange

1920
01:33:07,430 --> 01:33:05,030
subject but fairly well documented

1921
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:07,440
anyway we're we're approaching the

1922
01:33:16,790 --> 01:33:10,290
midnight hour here on the East Coast and

1923
01:33:19,820 --> 01:33:16,800
so one one time around the table Jerry

1924
01:33:21,650 --> 01:33:19,830
your book it's available in a week one

1925
01:33:24,380 --> 01:33:21,660
volume er is that how many volumes is it

1926
01:33:26,780 --> 01:33:24,390
it's it's a third edition the UFO on

1927
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:26,790
cyclopædia the full title of the UFO

1928
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:28,530
encyclopedia third edition the

1929
01:33:36,620 --> 01:33:30,930
phenomenon from the beginning it's two

1930
01:33:37,310 --> 01:33:36,630
volumes 1500 pages total and it's

1931
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:37,320
available

1932
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:40,770
I assure from from the usual book

1933
01:33:45,470 --> 01:33:43,050
answers there you go

1934
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:45,480
well it's a it's a phenomenal a job was

1935
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:47,250
it updated at all or is it pretty much

1936
01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:50,010
oh yeah no there's it was updated

1937
01:33:55,790 --> 01:33:52,770
there's a no it's not just the third

1938
01:33:58,310 --> 01:33:55,800
printing it is literally quite quite

1939
01:34:01,729 --> 01:33:58,320
different from the second dition plenty

1940
01:34:04,609 --> 01:34:01,739
of new material updated material sneak

1941
01:34:07,609 --> 01:34:04,619
peeks take me sneak me a review copy and

1942
01:34:10,310 --> 01:34:07,619
and Calvin bless you for being on and

1943
01:34:14,270 --> 01:34:10,320
for telling your your story and us

1944
01:34:19,580 --> 01:34:14,280
hooking up again after all these years

1945
01:34:23,030 --> 01:34:19,590
and the title of your book pass pagolo

1946
01:34:25,729 --> 01:34:23,040
the closest encounter my story Calvin

1947
01:34:31,189 --> 01:34:25,739
Parker you get it through Amazon right

1948
01:34:32,990 --> 01:34:31,199
now I'm sure people will be reading it

1949
01:34:37,149 --> 01:34:33,000
are are you going on a lecture tour I

1950
01:34:40,819 --> 01:34:37,159
mean are you appearing anywhere publicly

1951
01:34:42,530 --> 01:34:40,829
the only conference event that I think

1952
01:34:45,740 --> 01:34:42,540
about that I'm gonna make would be the

1953
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:45,750
Ozark Mountain Conference yeah

1954
01:34:50,689 --> 01:34:48,210
they contacted me to go there and April

1955
01:34:52,879 --> 01:34:50,699
so I am going I agreed to go that one

1956
01:34:55,819 --> 01:34:52,889
and then it's just up in the air after

1957
01:34:58,310 --> 01:34:55,829
that depends on though what happened

1958
01:35:00,560 --> 01:34:58,320
Philip I've never met Philip in about to

1959
01:35:02,780 --> 01:35:00,570
get one going on in the UK you know I

1960
01:35:05,419 --> 01:35:02,790
would yeah yeah yeah well there are

1961
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:05,429
there are some conferences there well

1962
01:35:09,379 --> 01:35:07,290
yeah we've we've run out of time and

1963
01:35:12,890 --> 01:35:09,389
it's been a spectacular show and I want

1964
01:35:14,930 --> 01:35:12,900
to thank our co-host the court so Tim

1965
01:35:17,209 --> 01:35:14,940
Schwartz and our guest tonight in Peter

1966
01:35:20,060 --> 01:35:17,219
Bernard and Helen and Carol Rodriguez

1967
01:35:22,970 --> 01:35:20,070
and Tina our producer and everybody who

1968
01:35:31,149 --> 01:35:22,980
helps us put this together god bless and

1969
01:35:37,570 --> 01:35:33,580
you've been listening to exploring the

1970
01:35:40,810 --> 01:35:37,580
bazaar with hosts Timothy Becky and to

1971
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:40,820
Swartz they're taking back the night by

1972
01:35:45,729 --> 01:35:43,370
jetting non-stop across the cosmos

1973
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:45,739
in search of the truly bizarre and

1974
01:35:50,089 --> 01:35:48,770
totally unexplained with you as their

1975
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:50,099
cold

1976
01:35:57,080 --> 01:35:52,610
Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

1977
01:35:58,290 --> 01:35:57,090
10:00 p.m. Eastern on the K cor digital

1978
01:36:00,720 --> 01:35:58,300
reading

1979
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:00,730
for more information on exploring the

1980
01:36:06,450 --> 01:36:03,850
bazaars and hosts Timothy Beckley and

1981
01:36:09,660 --> 01:36:06,460
Tim Swartz check out their kco our

1982
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:09,670
digital radio network follow their

1983
01:36:25,500 --> 01:36:15,730
YouTube channel @m r UFO 1100 explore